The sidebar of Joel Watts’ blog Unsettled Christianity currently lists as “False Prophets” about a dozen named Christian leaders, along with some Christian ministries and some less Christian ones. Among those named as false prophets are Rick Warren and Joel Osteen. And that is typical of the kind of criticism which many Christians routinely heap on well known megachurch leaders like these two, often without any real basis in fact. I can’t help suggesting that the reason for much of the criticism is jealousy of their success.
So it was interesting to read the post by Gez today on that same blog Philip Wagner defends Joel Osteen, with a long quotation from Wagner giving an essentially positive picture of Osteen and his church, including the following:
Joel does not teach classes on theology, the differences of Mormonism and Christianity or a thorough presentation of the foundational beliefs of Christianity. He’s a pastor with an evangelism gift.
Pastors at Joel Osteen’s church, Lakewood Church, disciple people, teach doctrinal truths of the Bible and train people for ministry. They teach people truth from error.
Indeed. The substance of most criticisms of the much maligned Osteen, apart from that he has enviably good teeth, is that his teaching is weak. Yes, perhaps it is, because his ministry is not that of a teacher. He is primarily an evangelist. Those who become Christians through his church and ministry then receive good teaching.
Philip Wagner, whose post Gez quotes, has a lot more to say about criticism of Osteen in his post What’s the Problem with Joel Osteen? He notes how “a well-known pastor in Seattle” (he means Mark Driscoll) used YouTube to “tear Joel apart” for “what he did not say” – the reference is probably to the same video that I discussed here in 2007, when I was perhaps trying to be more conciliatory than I am now. Wagner also writes:
Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion – even if it is ill informed.
The disappointing thing to me is that Christian leaders speak out publically against Joel and thereby encouraging other Christians not to respect him or to doubt his authenticity. They feel the liberty to publically attack those whom they don’t really understand or know. It’s embarrassing.As a Christian, I’m discouraged by the behavior of leaders who criticize, attack or diminish the significance of other Christian ministers.
This behavior and attitude is why many people do not want to be a part of Christianity or go to church because they feel that when they go to church they will be criticized the way our leaders do to each other.
For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself” 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other. Gal 5:14-15 NIV
I believe the main thing leaders should be “called out for” is the arrogance and the divisive example they promote by publically dismissing the relevance of another person’s ministry.
Have these very public leaders, who take the liberty to bring these unfair assessments of Joel Osteen, spoken to him or one of his pastors in private about their concerns?
I may be wrong – but I don’t think they have.
“If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. Matthew 18:15 NIV
Now Joel Osteen is not perfect. After all, he is human. I happen to think that his remarks about Mitt Romney’s Mormonism were unfortunate, although that could be because they were reported out of context.
I also think Philip Wagner is wrong about this: it is a major election issue, because many evangelical Christians will not vote for Mitt Romney simply because he is a Mormon.
Nevertheless this does not warrant Osteen being demonised in the way that he has been by so many Christians. He may be a flawed prophet, but that is not the same thing as a false prophet.
So, Joel Watts, please can you now take the lead of your friend Gez and remove from your sidebar the accusation that Osteen and other respected Christian leaders are “false prophets”. I don’t expect you to take down old posts, but I would like to see a new post expressing your regret for what you have written about these people in the past.
And please can that be an example to other Christian bloggers, and writers in other media, who are bringing the Christian faith into disrepute by their often ill-informed mud-slinging.
Actually, I’ve been thinking of changing the name of false prophets. I still think Osteen is false, but I think that citing a lot of people as false prophets does some damage. So, I’m thinking of a new name for the category.
My only thought after looking at the first blog you referenced was “Drat! I’m not on the list! Better try harder!”
Thank you, Joel.
Kay, there are some people, like Jim West, whose list of false prophets I would be proud to be on. But Joel Watts has become a friend, and although we still disagree on some things I have hopes of bringing him round.
Okay, so I’ve thought about this. I am thinking that maybe I will retitle the category Heterodox.
Well, Joel, that’s better than “False Prophets”, but why not just “Controversial”?
I hadn’t even considered that one, Peter, but I think it is better. Thanks!
Having come out of the Prosparity church movement ie: “Name it/Claim it” church, and seeing how they have warped scripture to prove their doctrine and the feelings of failure that accompany not receiving healings; the guilt that accompanies not being able to give more, etc… I really wish somebody had warned me about these preachers ahead of time. I am only just starting to trust God again after 8 years of bitterness and dialusionment. If you need to change your list name, I would label it “Questionable”.
Kathleen, I agree that there is much warped teaching in the “name it and claim it” movement. If this was what Osteen was being accused of, with credible evidence, then I would have no complaints. But the only substance I have seen in criticism of him is for what he did not say on a particular occasion.
Yes, “Questionable” would be a good name for Joel’s list. But I hope we consider any human teacher “Questionable” rather than presupposing that he or she is right about everything.
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As far as Osteen, scripture is twisted to make peopel feel good and he does not address the whole bible. He does not address sin and says that people have been beat up enough. The bible says whom the Lord loves He chastens. People need correction, that is a part of being a Pastor. Sin must be preached about, directly. Sure people need to be encouraged but who says that dealing with sin is not encouraging?
I went to lakewood and I can tell you that it is one bunch of motivational speaking. Getting people to believe that some how all of our struggles are for some kind of material gain. God has big plans but the plans and all that but does not tell the people that their rewards could be reserved for when they get to heaven. Its all about this life. In fact, I have never heard a message about holiness and heaven coming from Osteen’s lips.
He does not want to offend anyone. How can a minister of the gospel, be effective by trying to tip toe around scripture in order not to offend?
I find this defense of Osteen offensive.
“Pastors at Joel Osteen’s church, Lakewood Church, disciple people, teach doctrinal truths of the Bible and train people for ministry. They teach people truth from error.”
Who is it, that the thousands of people go there to listen to? do all of these people attend Lakewood, go to these various bibles studies? Do the millions of people who watch on TV and read his books, listen to these Pastors? Last but not least, isn’t the job of a Pastor to do what this comment says Osteen doesn’t do? Seriously, he calls himself a Pastor.
If he is an “evangelist” and not a Pastor then someone else should be the Pastor of the Church. This defense of Osteen is simply shocking because it makes scripture secondary.
I am not sure about this gift of evanglism when for my money the gospel is not preached in its entirety. Osteen doesn’t even say the word hell. From what I have read people of all relgions watch him religiously, they simply love his motivational speaking but want none of his God.
As far as mormonism. The issue is that Osteen as the Pastor of the biggest Church in America should know the truth. Seeing that he is so influential, many people will be lead to believe a lie when he speaks. That has nothing to do with being human it has all to do with not being equipped. Sorry but if he cannot answer this simple question, he should sit down. A Pastor should know about such things.
In closing, any ministry that is focused on this life is false. Jesus said to set our attentions on things above. Joel wants people to believe that it will all be good in this life. Where is that in the bible? In fact the bible says that believers will suffer for the cause of Christ.
Blessings on you!
Paul, have you actually been a regular attender at Lakewood Church? If you have only been on occasions, I don’t think it is fair to criticise Osteen for what you have not heard him say, as he may have said it on other occasions. If indeed he is more an evangelist than a pastor, then perhaps he should use a title other than “Pastor”, but the problem there is more with American church culture which expects a church leader to have that title.
Brother Peter, thank you for your response.
I was actually on the Church choir at Lakewood. I do know of what I speak. The LORD had to open my eyes to the nonsense that was going on and my wife and I left.
As far as most people attending Lakewood. I liken it to being a drug addict, that gets a hit, gets high and has to run back for another hit when the high wears off.
I watched people sit and eat every word from his mouth about the “great plans God has for them”, as if they were in a trance. This is a western Christianity that wants us to believe that it is all about financial gain.
Now Osteen knows to minimize money in his interviews, but go there and it is the same thing over and over again, about these “great plans”.
Osteen even says that he cannot be a blessing to anyone if he is broke? is that true?
Wasn’t the widow who gave one mite seen as a blessing to Christ?, The widow who gave Elijah the last cake? The Church in Philipi was commended by Paul because they gave out of their lack.
As far as titles. What is really important, is that if he stands before the people he is fully responsible to make sure he is teaching them the full counsel of God’s word. He cannot leave that to the bible study teachers.
1 Timothy 4:13
13 Till I come, give attention to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
Osteen has exempted himself from reading and doctrine it would seem. He never knows anything. He picks out a verse and then uses 10 stories/analogies to explain it. Many times giving stories about other persons, as if to say because God made this person rich, he will do it for every one under the sound of his voice.
I am all for encouragement, it is biblical, but our real encouragement is that we have a home away from this world. The bible says that we are pilgrims, only passing through. His teaching attaches people to this earth.
It could be that he is sincere, but he is sincerely wrong. A big error of his, is that he looks at his accomplishments and believe that it must be God. In doing so, he refuses to listen to any criticism. If he is perfect, then so be it, but can all of these Pastors and Christians who have an issue with some of his teaching be wrong?
Have a blessed day!
Paul, thank you for clarifying that you were involved in Lakewood Church. Now it seems that you have gone over to the dark side – by supporting Arsenal!
Well, I allow that you know more about Osteen than I do. But it still seems to me that the charges against him are ones of omission rather than of commission, of failing to teach sound doctrine rather than of teaching false doctrine. On that basis I would still say that it is wrong to call him a “false prophet”. I would not contest a claim that he is an inadequate pastor.
Bro Peter, Manchester United or The Spurs? ha ha ha!
Well he has said that he doesn’t say hell and the people don’t want doctrine and theology. He is very intentional.
I would say that his \”doctrine\” is false, as it is earth centered.
He has these meetings, “a night of hope”, but isn\’t the hope of the believer Heaven?
1 Corinthians 15:19
If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
1 Thessalonians 2:19
For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Is it not even you in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at His coming?
Gods blessing’s on you and yours.
I will reading from now on.
Thanks!!
Well, Paul, I wouldn’t agree with you that the hope of the believer is heaven, unless heaven is understood as a euphemism for God. Don’t confuse biblical teaching with popular culture about going to heaven when you die. Rather, the Christian hope properly understood is resurrection life on a new earth. But that is another topic.
AMEN, Peter. (I wasn’t going to weigh in on this because Osteen just isn’t on my radar screen – but hope is! )
Thank you, Kay. I’ll remove the duplicate comment.
Yes Bro. Peter, I am talking about eternity with God.
If am to be corrected what of Osteens earthly focus?
Well, Paul, I can only comment on “Osteens earthly focus” if I have evidence of what he actually believes and says on this one. Is he actually more wrong than people like you who imply that the Christian hope is only going to heaven when you die?
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A very late response.
To answer your question, I believe that our Hope is eternal life with Christ. I thought I clarified that.
However, If I am wrong in anything, I am willing to be corrected, no problem there. No man that I know has a lock on Gods word and we will always be learning.
Joel Osteen again regarging mormanism, yet again.
http://exministries.wordpress.com/2012/04/26/why-does-joel-osteen-put-christians-mormons-in-the-same-category/
I am not sure that this can be glossed over.
Blessings!
Paul, I will not defend what Osteen has said about Mormonism. But I don’t know enough about the latter to comment intelligently.