I’m sorry to post twice in one day about Todd Bentley, but my excuse is that for the first time for some weeks there is actually some news about the man himself. Thanks to “learnfrenchwiththebible” for the link. Rick Joyner has written an article, dated yesterday (26th September) and apparently his first since 23rd August, which includes the following, starting at the beginning (I have added the italics, the bold emphasis is Joyner’s):
The number one question I am asked is, “How is Todd Bentley doing?” Todd came to spend a few days with us, and in general I was encouraged with how he’s doing. He is deeply sorry for the problems that his problems have caused others. He is well aware that he made some mistakes and foolish choices. Todd wants to express this as clearly as he can in a letter, which should be coming in a few weeks. It will take that long because I will be helping him with this, and I will be out of the country for three weeks. We also want to get input from a few others, and this will take time.
The present plan is for him to get some practical issues worked out in his life, visit with a couple of friends who have gone through similar things in their lives and have come through them victoriously, and then come to Heritage for a period of time to begin a healing and restoration process.
I have also spent some time with two of the primary leaders of Fresh Fire Ministries. I am confident that both Todd and Fresh Fire will not only make it through this, but will be a powerful force and factor in what will be unfolding in the coming times. …
I appreciate the patience and the prayers of those who have not given up on Todd, Fresh Fire Ministries, the Lakeland Outpouring, and especially on the Lord to continue moving mightily in Lakeland and in many other places. Lakeland was a spark that has lit many fires and continues to light them—they are not going out. If you were touched in any way by it, keep moving forward. This was never about Todd Bentley but the Lord, and He is moving at a dramatic pace now. This really could be the beginning of the move of God that does not stop moving!
At the same time, we cannot keep killing our own wounded. As Galatians 6:1 declares, we have no choice but to restore those who are caught in “any trespass.” I am very confident that Todd will not only be back in ministry, but will ultimately have a much bigger impact and be walking in even more power than he has yet walked in. …
At the same time, I was not very surprised by Todd’s problems. Those of his nature and calling have always been prone to great victories and advances, and great mistakes. The Apostle Peter is a good example. Right after he received one of the greatest commendations in Scripture, the Son of God Himself called him “Satan” (see Mark 8:33). One minute Peter was hearing straight from heaven, and the next minute he was hearing straight from hell. Right after denying the Lord, which is one of the worst things we could do, Peter was restored and became the leader of the revival on the Day of Pentecost. Go figure.
Joyner concludes his letter by quoting in its entirety the letter from Rory and Wendy Alec of God TV which I discussed in a previous post. He describes this letter as follows:
I thought this was as close to a letter with true apostolic weight as I have yet seen about these issues.
Hi Peter:
Yes, humans sin and make mistakes. For example, a typo in an article is a mistake. Turning off the freeway onto a wrong exit is a mistake. Dialing a wrong number is a mistake.
But what Todd Bentley chose to do was and is sin, to which there should have been immediate repentance–both privately and publicly (1 John 1:6-10).
There is a big difference between a mistake and sin.
Sincerely in Christ,
Bud Press
Bud, I agree that Todd has sinned, at least if the reports of his behaviour are accurate. I don’t think Todd has himself used that word publicly. I hope that he does in due course, in the letter which we can expect in a few weeks, and that in that letter he expresses clear repentance. But it is good that he is already saying that “He is deeply sorry”, and apparently moving towards a clear expression of repentance from sin. I’m sure the various friends he is consulting with will encourage him to do this. Obviously the sooner he can do it, the better, and he needs to do this before there can be any talk about restoring him to ministry.
But I hope you are not suggesting that if repentance is not immediate it cannot be accepted. That is both false teaching and pastorally very insensitive.
Hi Peter:
My statement on “immediate repentance” is based on Matthew 18:15-17, and the need for immediate repentance from sin. When repentance is postponed the opportunity for sin multiplies.
The underlying problem concerning Todd Bentley is that history records that he was conditioned and deceived from the beginning–groomed and mentored by those conditioned and deceived before him.
Todd Bentley needs solid, Bible-based Christians to minister to him–not those who were/are part of the problem.
I pray God will be merciful and open Todd Bentley’s eyes and ears to the truth, and be born again.
In Christ,
Bud Press
Bud, what is the “history” you refer to? If what you mean is that you consider the generally true teaching that he received to be deception, then please agree with me that you and I have fundamentally different understandings of basic Christian doctrine.
There is nothing about “immediate” in Matthew 18:15-17, but I agree that “When repentance is postponed the opportunity for sin multiplies.”
No, Todd does not need to be born again. He was born again in a quite marvellous way when he was about 17. Have you read his story?
Hi Peter:
Please refer to the “Todd Bentley Articles Page” of my website (menu), where you will find plenty of information concerning Bentley and his “history.”
From the beginning, Todd Bentley was groomed and mentored by false prophets and false teachers, such as Benny Hinn, Bob Jones, and William Branham (who denied the Trinity and more).
While the word “immediate” is not in Matthew 18:15-17, there is an immediate urgency for repentance, for obvious reasons.
As you read the articles on my website, you will learn that Todd Bentley, as well as the Florida Outpouring, was overshadowed by a counterfeit “Jesus/gospel/spirit,” which the Apostle Paul warned about in Galatians 1:6-9 and 2 Corinthians chapter 11.
And a counterfeit “Jesus” does not have the authority or power to save, sanctify, or redeem the lost.
In Christian love,
Bud Press
Bid, how do I know that the one “overshadowed by a counterfeit “Jesus/gospel/spirit,” which the Apostle Paul warned about in Galatians 1:6-9 and 2 Corinthians chapter 11”, is Todd Bentley and not you? That is a real question: Todd has been recommended to me by many people I trust including my pastor, but I have no idea who you are. If one of the tests of a false teacher is lack of good fruit (Matthew 7:15-20), consider what I wrote about fruit in this comment.
Hi Peter:
You wrote: “Bid, how do I know that the one “overshadowed by a counterfeit “Jesus/gospel/spirit,” which the Apostle Paul warned about in Galatians 1:6-9 and 2 Corinthians chapter 11″, is Todd Bentley and not you?”
Bud’s comments: You don’t. This is why it is extremely important to apply the Biblical tests to anyone who claims to be Christian (1 Thessalonians 5:21; 1 John 4:1). The tests include their teachings and prophecies.
You wrote: “That is a real question: Todd has been recommended to me by many people I trust including my pastor, but I have no idea who you are. If one of the tests of a false teacher is lack of good fruit (Matthew 7:15-20), consider what I wrote about fruit in this comment.”
Bud’s comments: I have people, articles, books, blogs, and websites recommended to me on a regular basis. But before I recommend them I communicate, ask questions, and test their beliefs with God’s written word.
In Matthew 7:15-20, Jesus begins by warning the believer about “false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.”
Then, Jesus draws a clear distinction between the “fruits” of a true prophet and false prophet. True prophets produce good fruit, while false prophets produce bad fruit. There is no gray area–one is either a true or false prophet (Deuteronomy 18:21-22).
Check out the articles on my website about Todd Bentley and the Florida Outpouring. Compare what is said with Scripture. Let me know your thoughts.
In Christian love,
Bud Press
You know one thing I keep hearing about Todd Bentley is “judge him by his fruits, and look at his fruits; he’s a filthy sinner”. Well guess what? So am I and so are all of us and yes he has maybe messed up big time, however his fruits are still evident. Jesus was talking about the fruits of our righteousness and I think perhaps Todd being a servant of Christ has beared many good fruits in his ministry.
I continue to pray for him and his family and the naysayers.
Bud, first I apologise for calling you “Bid”, a “mistake” of course.
I too am a sinner like Ferg, like Todd and like Todd’s critics. But I still see more good fruit from Todd’s ministry than from all the criticism against him. And personal morality is not a biblical test of a prophet; nor for that matter is perfect doctrine. So if it is true that “There is no gray area–one is either a true or false prophet”, then it should be clear who I classify as true and as false. Hint: Todd does not go in the false category. But I don’t in fact take such a black and white view of it. So don’t worry, Bud, I won’t call for you to be stoned, just corrected for the wrong things you say about Todd.
Why does Todd keep delaying his statement??? Seems as though he has to consult many others regarding what to say in his statement. Why is that?? Is he not a BIG boy who is able to speak for himself??
This kind of stuff makes me very very supicious of any release of information by Todd. What is so difficult about stating some facts, like what did he do and who did he do it with?? Remember the bible says somewhere that that which is done in secret will be all be exposed!!! So why doesn’t Todd just come clean and tell the truth. Put an end to all the conjecture! Only he knows what happened and why – he certainly does not need a bunch of proven false prophets giving him more false advice on what to say and how to act!
Bud,
by reading a lot of what’s on your website I really hope you don’t have any skeletons in your closet like the rest of the human race because I could do a little “bud-watch” section on my blog and delve in to your past and ‘expose’ you. But I wouldn’t do that because I know it would be wrong and unfair.
Perhaps some, even most of what is written on your website is truth but you have linked a couple of men of God on your website that I find truly tragic for you to think it’s ok to call them ‘heretics’.
and the fact is, we are all sinners and NONE of us have correct theology. We all differ on our views on the end times, predestination, free will, women in ministry, the role of music in church, experiencing Jesus, speaking in tongues and so on; some may be wrong in their views but it seems to me to be a terrible thing to stand on such high ground and judge others who do not attest to the same theological views as your good self.
I don’t doubt your heart to want to warn people but I’d be careful in how you do it and who you do it of. God is jealous of his kids.
It appears very easy for men to fall into sexual sin, that is understandable and can be forgiven. However,
What I feel would be absolutly abominable is if all the healings were fake. Were they? Did he have any power in miracles? That certainly would be a bigger problem than infidelity. That he conned the public and lied about his gifts. That would be blashphemy. Can someone who knows answer the healing question. Were people genuinely healed? And why the lies about the tattoos? Why the tattoos in the first place?
Ray, I don’t know the answer to your question. But Todd is indeed a big boy and so has the right to decide for himself what to say publicly and when to keep quiet. He certainly should say something before returning to public ministry, but for now he is a private individual and what he says is up to himself, his personal counsellors, and God – it is none of our business.
Ferg, thanks for your support.
Ariel, it would indeed be a serious issue if all of the miracles associated with Todd were deliberately faked. Yes, more serious than the alleged (but denied) sexual sin. I believe that many people were genuinely healed. I can’t prove it. As for the tattoos, that is a matter between Todd and God, and I don’t accept that there have been any lies about them – see this comment in which I discuss the alleged lie which is in fact based on information supplied in parentheses by a newspaper correspondent.
Hi Ariel
I would say that Todd did perform miracles. The reason I say this is because our ex youth minister went out there and his deaf ear healed after Todd prayed for him. He reports electricity going through him which pinned him to the floor and while he was down there his ear was healed.
On top of that the leaders of St Andrews, Chorleywood went out there and were prayed for by Todd Bentley. When they came back there was an increase in miracles in their church. I know this because my friend ministers on their ministry team. She actually saw a leg grow when she was praying for someone and also someone had a deaf ear healed.
However, miracles don’t impress me much. I was in an AOG church where I have seen a leg grow on two separate occasions. I saw people come in as atheists, get hit by the power of God and come up beleiving. It turned out that the leadership of that church were quite corrupt. People didn’t end up being discipled but hurt by the leadership and leaving.
On top of that there are amazing documented miracles at Lourdes which result in the worship of Mary.
As you can tell from this blog, I think there is something very wrong with Todd Bentley but I do believe he moves in the miraculous.
Julie, I’m glad that you agree that it was the power of God, not of Satan, which hit people even in that AOG church with corrupt leadership. On the same basis I believe that it is the power of God which was hitting people at Lakeland even though the leadership there, including Todd Bentley, was seriously flawed. And I think you agree. But that is not the position of so many of the sites you love to quote from, who seem to claim that the healings at Lakeland come from an occult source like the alleged Emma-O.
Hi Peter
I guess when all is said and done I’m not sure if his power is a mixture or what. Most of the time I am verging on the side of it being from the wrong side.
That is really what I’m trying to get to the bottom of with all of my debating !! That and whether they are bringing false theology into the church.
OK, Julie, I see what you are getting at.
I see a serious problem with your line of argumentation. If there is some kind of contagion from Branham’s “occultic” angel and false teaching, that contagion has by now been passed on not just to the Kansas City bunch and Todd Bentley, but through the likes of John Wimber, David Pytches and John Arnott to practically the whole of the contemporary charismatic scene in the UK and the USA. If you reject Todd for these reasons you also have to reject the whole Vineyard movement; New Wine and Soul Survivor; probably New Frontiers and most other UK charismatic fellowships; at least a good proportion of Pentecostals; certainly HTB and the Alpha Course; and through them a good proportion even of Roman Catholics worldwide. Do you really want to follow that path? Perhaps some of the critics you quote do, because they are fundamentalist cessationists who want to return to a dry intellectual Calvinism. But I don’t see you as in that camp at all. You need to realise the implications if you choose that path.
Hi Bud
Thanks for the link to your site. Criticism is the unforgivable sin on this web site. You can sin as much as you like in any other way and that is fine.
I will let you know what I think. Thanks for sticking your neck out. Like you I believe by their fruit you will know them. We all do sin and fall short and have our struggles but we should be growing.
The Bible lays down standards for those in leadership. (1Tim 3:2 & Titus 1:6) Also when the Holy Spirit is really present in power you die for lying – Ananias & Sapphira (Acts Ch5).
There was a difference between King David and King Saul. God took his Holy Spirit away from King Saul, yet both of these sinned. Judas Iscariot and Peter denied Jesus, one was saved, one was not. I see a difference between habitual ongoing sin we are not dealing with; and having a heart after God but slipping up here and there.
Ferg, its not about judging, its about getting to the truth so we are not deceived. We also should not be excusing sin but grieving over it.
Quite frankly the comment I hate hearing the most is ‘We’re all sinners’. The charismatic church is a mess and all we can say is ‘We’re all sinners’.
Ezekiel 9:3 is an interesting verse where God tells the angel to mark everyone who does not grieve over the sin of Israel because he is going to kill them.
Now fortunately today we are under God’s grace but this is God’s heart about sin. If our heart is beating with his we should feel the same.
I guess this means that I believe that there is allot more wrong with Todd Bentley than that he just committed adultery.
The problem that I see is that it seems that ministers around Todd Bentley knew of his problems, but he was still allowed to be in the forefront and lead this Outpouring. My assumption is that it was because of the annointing on his life and the miracles that were happening. I have read much about William Branham and it seems as though he had many issues and wrong doctrine, but because of so many getting healed people around him did not hold him accountable.
I truly believe that the miracles in the Outpouring were of God. There was not accountability nor did the ministers that knew of Todds’ problems do anything about holding him accountable and removing him until the problems were resolved and there was a true change of heart and mind on Todds part.
The problem that I see is that it seems that ministers around Todd Bentley knew of his problems, but he was still allowed to be in the forefront and lead this Outpouring. My assumption is that it was because of the annointing on his life and the miracles that were happening. I have read much about William Branham and it seems as though he had many issues and wrong doctrine, but because of so many getting healed people around him did not hold him accountable.
I truly believe that the miracles in the Outpouring were of God. There was not accountability nor did the ministers that knew of Todds’ problems do anything about holding him accountable and removing him until the problems were resolved and there was a true change of heart and mind on Todds part.
The problem that I see is that it seems that ministers around Todd Bentley knew of his problems, but he was still allowed to be in the forefront and lead this Outpouring. My assumption is that it was because of the annointing on his life and the miracles that were happening. I have read much about William Branham and it seems as though he had many issues and wrong doctrine, but because of so many getting healed people around him did not hold him accountable.
I truly believe that the miracles in the Outpouring were of God. There was not accountability nor did the ministers that knew of Todds’ problems do anything about holding him accountable and removing him until the problems were resolved and there was a true change of heart and mind on Todds part.
The problem that I see is that it seems that ministers around Todd Bentley knew of his problems, but he was still allowed to be in the forefront and lead this Outpouring. My assumption is that it was because of the annointing on his life and the miracles that were happening. I have read much about William Branham and it seems as though he had many issues and wrong doctrine, but because of so many getting healed people around him did not hold him accountable.
I truly believe that the miracles in the Outpouring were of God. There was not accountability nor did the ministers that knew of Todds’ problems do anything about holding him accountable and removing him until the problems were resolved and there was a true change of heart and mind on Todds part.
Julie, I must have missed your comment 109660 earlier. I get confused by your large number of comments on many different posts. Let me first say that no sins are acceptable on this blog, if there is public evidence that they are real. But for the sake of harmony here there is one sin, included in many of the New Testament sin lists, which I explicitly forbid in comments here, which is the sin of gossip and of tearing down one’s fellow believers. Well, actually, I do allow it, because in nearly every one of your dozens of comments here you have been doing that, but I will not let it go unchallenged. Do you really want the Holy Spirit to come in such power that people who lie die? Wouldn’t you be terrified at for example how God might judge your false statement about Todd’s tattoo? Or for your statement that Todd committed adultery, for which (at least if meant in the literal physical sense) there is not a shred of evidence?
I see Todd as more like Peter and David, a man with a heart for God who has slipped up occasionally. At least I have seen no clear evidence that he should instead be categorised with Saul and Judas as you seem to imply. But which category he or anyone else fits into is ultimately not for you or me to decide.
Ruth, thank you for your comment. I agree that there were inadequacies in supervision and accountability at Lakeland. A group of apostolic leaders did address this issue in June, but it seems that they did so too late to stop problems emerging.
If you have a sin in your life that you’ve been playing around with, you need to get serious and repent. The longer you toy with it, the harder your heart will become.
Bud, I agree. But in God’s grace no heart is so hard that it cannot be brought to repentance if the will to repent is there.
I understand that all of us are human. (we make mistakes and sin) However, because of all that I have seen and heard with my own two eyes and ears, I turn all ministers off when they are on TV. And I do not attend their churches. That way I protect myself from all the defilement.
SMBGA, I understand your caution. But sadly there is no way we can protect ourselves from potential defilement by imperfect ministers, except by clearly disobeying God by staying away from any kind of church gathering. For there are plenty of sinful ministers who don’t appear on TV, and indeed no minister is perfect. But we are called to live in an imperfect world and an imperfect church, and to depend not on human effort but on God to protect us from defilement.
Peter:
Keep in mind that post 109912 is a direct quote from Todd Bentley’s book, “The Reality of the Supernatural World” (June 2008, p. 150).
Further, the book has serious problems, such as:
— During a “vision” with “Jesus” in heaven, a woman was shocked to see no one sitting on the throne. “Jesus” told the woman he lives in “another universe.”
— Jesus’ act of redemption was not completed on the cross, but when he ascended into heaven.
— During a “vision,” Todd Bentley claims that “Jesus” stepped out of the “darkness” and was followed by a “kaleidoscope” of colors and was like a “living rainbow.” This is not the real Jesus of the Bible.
— The book praises heretics and false prophets such as William Branham, Benny Hinn, Bob Jones, and Kenneth Hagin, and is endorsed by Bill Johnson, James Goll, Wesley and Stacey Campbell, Patricia King, and more.
— Despite the Apostle Paul’s warnings in Galatians 1:6-9 and 2 Corinthians 11:3-4, the book is laced with back-and-forth visits to heaven and visitations from “Jesus.” Which raises the very important question: “How do they know it is the real Jesus?”
As one who has studied the cults and cultic behavior since the early 1980’s, the classic warning signs for the emergence of a new cult-like messiah were there during the Florida Outpouring–incubating behind the scenes. And the “prophecies” foretold over Todd Bentley during his “Commissioning” added fuel to the fire.
Later, the “apostles” and “prophets” brought new meaning to the word “mistake,” when they should have admitted to the sin of false prophesying and repented on their faces before Almighty God. Had they followed God’s written word in the first place, they would not have participated and would not be in the deceptive mess they are in.
Many people worldwide placed their hopes, dreams, and even faith in Todd Bentley–only to be slapped in the face with a heavy fist of reality. Without a doubt, the Lord removed Bentley from the Florida Outpouring, brought it to a screeching halt, and used Bible-based Christians to expose one of the most dangerous situations to confront the body of Christ in recent years.
“Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting; for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds” (2 John 1:9-10).
“He who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous, both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD” (Proverbs 17:15).
People better wake up!
My Name is Bob!
Can you explain to me how Todd could stand before the brethern and the world and do his stuff knowing that Evening or Day before our shortly before going to the stage – whatever – He had sex with another women, drank and then presented himself as pure vessel before God. He cheated on His Wife for a second time.
People at fresh fire knew it had happen before and did little to nothing about it and were aware of Todd’s new behavior while he was in Lakeland.
Tell me what kind of man of God would do this and stand suppostly in the throne room of God as he was on the stage at Lakeland – as if he was pure when in reality he was covered with sin.
One of the greates sins that came out of Lakland was Todd Bentley.
Time to hold all our supposed leaders acountable and answerable to a body of elders outside the old gang.
Absolutely, Bud. I am with Todd on this one. It is a serious false teaching to separate the resurrection and ascension from the cross and make them into mere afterthoughts. Sin was dealt with on the cross, but without the resurrection and ascension we are still dead in our sins and lost eternally, 1 Corinthians 15:17,18.
Well, the rainbow is more like the vision of God the Father in Revelation 4:3, but there are plenty of colours in the vision of Jesus in 1:12-16.
Some great men and women of God listed here, although some are deeply flawed and none are perfect. But you should judge Todd on his own merits, not by association with others.
Indeed, and they were quite wrong to do so. But those who did were obviously not listening to Todd who was always giving the glory to God not himself. This reminds me of the people in John 6:14-15, who put their faith in Jesus in quite the wrong way – was that Jesus’ fault?
Bob, please withdraw your libellous comment that Todd had sex with other women. Todd is not and never has been the kind of person to do what you claim. He has done wrong things and admitted it, but not what you are alleging.
Did not anyone from the very beginning see a problem with the tattoos and piercings on Bentley? The Word of God clearly speaks against such as this. And to always talk with ‘his angel?’ Where is that scriptural? We have to question everything. Go to God’s Word to see what the heart of God is on any matter.
SMBGA, this tattoo and piercing issue was brought up long ago. See this post of mine from May, and its comments. For “his angel”, see Acts 12:15 – the early Christians clearly believed that they had personal guardian angels.
Bob again!
I base my comment on Todd having sex from a letter from fresh firer that he had a relationship with another woman (note one woman). He committed Adultry is a known fact.
Sure in the bible there were others but that does not justify what Todd did.
I do not care about Tatoos – but Adultry and Drinking I do. You can twist or firer whatever you want at what I am saying but it is a known fact that this activity – affairs – with other women as a married man is not favored by the Lord and are a fact of public information.
We have homosexual prophets and supposed respected prophets (who had women strip before him of all clothes before prophesing to them) as menthors to Todd.
I do not retract my position that is a known fact in the public domain – Todd had an affair on his wife while in lakeland- she did not have the affair he did. So if he was having an affair that went beyound just touching and drinking and he stood before God’s faithfull for 100 days – at sometime he had sex with that women.
Do not gloss Todd’s behavior – we need to hold people in places of honor accountable and remember – … much given much expected.
Speaking scripture to cover up is not right! What about the countless thousands who have been spiritually hurt from what the facts publicly have stated. While at Lakeland Todd had an affair and drank (booze, beer).
Todd was directed to reove himself from the Board of Fresh Firer and all public ministry, this does not happen because of Tattoos .
His divorce that is in its stage to come to pass under Canadian Divorce Law – has occured – they (Todd and his wife)are seperated and no there is no resolving for restoration.
Todd bentley was having a sexual affair with a women while in lakeland proclaiming himself as a servant of God while in one of the deepest sins – Adultry. Standing before thousands proclaiming to be in relationship with God.
His other behavior I leave to others to declare! I still hold the position that Todd needs to answer to God’s people especially for the spiritual out fall from His misguided behavior.
He remains one of the many great sins of Lakeland!
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No, Bob. The letters from Fresh Fire stated on 12th August
– and on 15th August
Note the consistent position that the relationship, although wrong, was not a sexual one. You wrote “if he was having an affair that went beyound just touching and drinking”. Touching and drinking there may have been, but there is no evidence that the relationship went any further.
I agree that Todd has done wrong and needs to repent, and should do so publicly before returning to public ministry.
Hi Peter:
I do appreciate your allowing me to post and share on your blog.
Concerning Jesus’ redemptive work on the cross, let’s compare what Todd Bentley teaches to God’s written word.
Again, in the book, “The Reality of the Supernatural World,” Bentley states, “When did Jesus complete this act of redemption? When He ascended into the holy place, He obtained eternal redemption once and for all. In that place, He sat down for a moment at the right hand of God, and that’s when it was finished” (p. 141).
But in John 19:16-30, God’s written word describes Jesus’ crucifixion. Verse 30 teaches: “Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit.”
Todd Bentley says that Jesus’ “act of redemption” was completed in heaven. But God’s written word teaches that Jesus completed the work of man’s redemption and salvation on the cross–“It is finished.”
Bud, see my response to you here, and my explanation of why Jesus’ word “It is finished!” doesn’t mean quite what you claim it does. Anyway Todd’s words which you quote are more or less directly taken from Hebrews 9:11-12, so your disagreement is not so much with Todd as with the biblical author.
Bob
Once again!
Seperation was filled by Todd from his wife!
In Canada it is the first and final step towards a divorce. A period of nine months is then set in place untill it is then legally a divorce!One does not take this step unless their is either no resolve to the present marriage or the new relation is what Todd wants.
This is Todd’s second relationship with another woman! The last one was three years ago and every effort was made to correct the issue and it was to my knowledge.Public Knowledge!
Todd was not removed fom the board of Fresh Firer nor was he told to remove himself from public ministry.So what is the difference on this go around? Time is the Judge of all things and so is God but we as the church have a right to jude within the church and this is an example of a time of either putting out to the devil for a quick return or here comes another snow job until the next upheival!
2 yrs ago todd was told by God before commensement of his ministry in London – that he has been doing his own thing and that he was not doing God’s will and that God told him he will take him down. He then goes on his tattoo bing while in London and then is told to take time out from ministry by the counsel of such people as Rick Joiner.
Instead of following the counsel he comes back in three months then his next big adventure is Lakeland.
His rebellion this time around has caused much pain and he is to be held accountable. Part of mercy is also holding one accountable. Smoothing this over is not the solution but rather not only must Todd be restored but we must care for the people of the fallout from Todd’s Lakeland lies!
Bob, Todd took this step of legal separation after Shonnah refused further contact with him, as reported by Rick Joyner.
Do you have any reliable evidence for what you say about Todd’s time in London two years ago?
Bob
Yes! The evidence is a conference held at Abbotsford British Columbia, Canada when Rick Joiner, Fresh Firer ministry and Tod Bentley came together.
It was sold as a DVD of todd’s presentation at this conference . Out of Todd’s own mouth he said when it happen in the London Experience and what God had said.
I am convinced that I have the DVD! I would need to look for it but yes he did say what I stated on the previous blog.
In regards to his wife not communicating with Todd can you tell me what sane women after forgiving her husband once before of his infidelity is ready for a a second time? Before her not talking to him – it is a known fact of the stress between them – public knowledge.
I am not here to take this track to ‘he said I said’ but I will not let anyone with the claims of the type of Todd Bentley – be it Bob Jones, Rick Joiner or Peter Wagner, ….., that it is a matter of time of healing and then the return for Todd to ministry as if it is a clean slate and pick up from where he left off!
Todd Bentley is inmature and was let loose on the church of what he could develop for the system not for God. He is still a sacred golden calf to many including himself.
What about the pain of the brethern and the reaction of the larger community of believers’? The damage of Lakeland will have an impact for a long time in a negative way!
Please do not say that there are events happening that stemms from Lakeland annointing. It is an experience that will teach the church about a lot of our behaviors that we use scripture to call the behavior and claims are of God!
Fear God is the first step of Wisdom! That is our problem in the church we do not fear God but rather sugar coat him!
What a wake up call soon coming for us all!
One thing for sure is taht the Word of the Lord remains True, Everything that can shake will shake in these coming days. I for one was very disapointed with the happenings in Lakeland. My wife and i went there after watching it on God TV for quite awhile. Honestly we left disapointed. Not that we disbelieved what was happening, more so that it was not what we believe to be coming to the church. I have deep respect for Rick Joyner, I grew very much spiritualy on his books over the last 8 years of my life. But I will say that I havew not been very impressed with how things have been handled with the whole Bently thing.
I wish to address a few issues from the comments that are above without taking sides, just bringing some scriptual wisdom to light.
For one, we if born again are not sinners, this does not mean we donnot ever sin, but to be a sinner denies our conversion into the righteousness of God through Christ Jesus. If we the church are ever to grow up then we must not fail to recognize our own identity, this is not pride, but total dependency upon the work of the cross and the Lords ressurection.
Next I believe that we must spend much time before the Lord in the coming days because I for one have never seen such a diverse response in the body of those who even claim to be of like precious faith. Confusion has settled in, and James 3:16 clearly states that when envy and strife(self seeking) are manifested then confusion and every evil work is there. While many are still bothered with the Todd Bently situation I have this much to say, At least he has sat down from ministry. I give him that. So many in the body like Paula White will divorce and never lose a step in their ministry. I have a much bigger problem with this.
Never the less, I would be careful who I label a false prophet in the coming days. I donnot believ that Bently is a false prophet, but I do believe that the waters were muddy, and if the waters are muddy then I want nothing to do with those waters.
Peter:
Two things:
1. Let’s look at what Jesus did and did not say.
Jesus said “It is finished” (John 19:30), meaning that He completed the work of man’s redemption and salvation on the cross, and nowhere else.
Jesus did not say, “It is partly finished” or “It will be finished in heaven.”
God’s written word speaks for itself. Todd Bentley’s words add to Scripture.
As a side note, keep in mind that the Word-Faith movement teaches that Jesus died spiritually on the cross and had to be born again in hell, which is heresy and blasphemy ( http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/word-faith2.html ).
And heretical, blasphemous teachings have not the power to save, sanctify, and redeem the lost.
2. In your July 2, 2008 post, “Wheat or weed?” you quoted Matthew 7:15-18, then stated:
“No one can tell the difference from the outward appearance, for both sheep and wolves look like sheep. The only way to distinguish between the two groups is to wait for the fruit to appear.
“This implies that it is still rather early to make definitive judgments about Todd Bentley. I think there has been good fruit, but there have also been reports of bad fruit. We will have to wait and see” (complete post at http://www.qaya.org/blog/?p=570 ).
The “reports of bad fruit” from Todd Bentley’s claims and teachings are all over the internet, and were gathered from Bentley’s articles, books, videos, and eyewitness accounts during the Florida Outpouring.
Therefore, Peter, don’t assume that my posts or the articles I write demonstrate an “eagerness to find ways to knock Todd” or that I have purposely “picked on something out of context…”
Had you read my article, “Todd Bentley and the Hotel Fire in Seattle,” you would have known that I loved Bentley enough to make numerous attempts to contact him by phone, e-mail, and FAX ( http://www.christianresearchservice.com/ToddBentley7.htm ).
Finally, Christians are under the Scriptural commands to Test all things and Try the spirits by God’s written word, defend the faith, expose the unfruitful works of darkness, and guard the flock against the “wolves” (1 Thessalonians 5:21; 1 John 4:1; Jude 3; Ephesians 5:11; Acts 20:27-31).
Precious souls for whom Jesus Christ died for hang in the balance. And when Christians follow these Scriptural commands, they do so NOT out of hatred, but out of love for Jesus Christ and the truth of His written word.
My former pastor once told me to make sure that I know the spirit behind the person. He was so right. Everyone of us have been deceived, or will be deceived in this lifetime. Deception is so subtle. God help us all.
Bob, thanks for referring to the evidence. But I would suggest that you listen to the DVD again rather than rely on your memory. I say this because I have seen several false allegations made against Todd on this blog by people who have misremembered or misunderstood what they have read or heard, that is if they are not deliberate liars. But, Bob, you clearly don’t accept what Jesus said about forgiving seventy times seven, either in your advice to Shonnah or in your own attitude.
Shane, thank you for your interesting comment.
Bud: 1. Jesus did not say what was finished. He might have been referring to his own life. 2. I have not seen any reliable reports of bad fruit. Todd’s inappropriate relationship is not of course good, but at least Todd recognises his mistake. But the main bad fruit I see around here is in the hatred, lies etc coming from those who oppose God’s work at Lakeland and continue to claim that what they are doing is good. If you showed your “love” for Todd in the way you have in your comments here when you tried to contact him about the hotel fire, I’m not surprised he didn’t reply to you. I have tested and tried what you are writing here as commanded by God’s word and have come to the conclusion that the bad fruit you are demonstrating shows where your comments are coming from.
SMBGA, I know the Spirit behind Todd and I know the spirit behind Bud Press. It is by their fruits that you will know them.
Bob again!
I know what is on the DVD from Todd Bentley’s conference. You need to research it and prove me wrong not tell me about my shortfalls (in memory).
What you need to know is the bentleys before all this ministry work was known by my family to the point that they would baby sit the children.
I also know two members of the $500.00 dolar club that are part of the membership hiarcy just like lakeland and the thousand dollar bill offerring that was supposed to be God telling todd only to find out later that Todd admitted that God did not tell him!!!
I also want to be clear that it is not my opinion that Rick Joinery is a False Prophet but I do know as a follower for the past five years that the night of the great blessings from Peter Wagner and company – Rick Joyner did not look comfortable on the stage.
Tell me Peter what about the ones who went to Lakeland or watched by internet or God TV videos and were devastated when it all started to go sour and proven to be false including the healings. Is there anyone out their who cares about them or are we just wanting to keep an idol alive?
Why are the same Group – Wagner and company backing of from Todd and lakeland. Why are the prophesies from these same suppositly highly gifted men and women of God now known as false (false prohesies)?
In regards to Todd I prophesied two years ago to a visiting Pastor in my community that Todd Bentley will fall but his restoration based on Todd’s willingness to come under authority and menthoring of Others and not the present ones – even my respected Rick Joyner – But rather a totally solid group of elders with no attachment to Todd but are respected within the Universal Church. Todd needs a refereshing and not the same tainted water of the past overseers.If truthfull repentance and reconcilliation is complete Todd will be used by God at a greater level of understanding than ever before experienced by Todd.
The issue,as much as I have spoken about Todd, is not Todd only but how weak are we as the church called by God and saved by Jesus – to have such Low discernment not to sorth out what is God’s and what is not. The Charismatic movement has become the milk once again!
Restoration is needed for all!
Please prayer for those now discouraged from the Lakeland fallout!
Thank you Peter for you allow me access for this short visit!
God promised the truth and truth will be forthwith coming!
Bob, I didn’t know you were personally close to Todd and family. On that basis I will accept the truth of what you say about him.
But do you have any evidence, any stories, about “the ones who went to Lakeland or watched by internet or God TV videos and were devastated when it all started to go sour”? Do these people you want me to care about actually exist? I have asked previously and received no personal stories. Sure, some people are confused, largely because of the campaign of misinformation from some directions. And those who wrongly put their faith in Todd rather than God must be disappointed. But I have never actually heard of anyone who claims to have been harmed by Lakeland.
What are the prophecies which you claim are “now known as false”? Is this yet another false allegation?
Can you name a possible “totally solid group of elders with no attachment to Todd but are respected within the Universal Church” who might be prepared to take responsibility for Todd? Or even who might have been before the recent issues? If Wagner’s group of apostles are not respected enough, is there anyone who is? I doubt it. So you seem to be saying that preachers should not minister unless they are under the covering of a non-existent group of leaders. Well, in that case we had better close down every church and other Christian meeting in the world.
One thing for sure: There are too many individuals out there in church land calling themselves prophets. (men and women) If someone came to me and said that they have a word from God for me, I would tell them ‘no thanks.’ Why? I don’t know the person, and because if it isn’t truly from God, whatever they say to you, it can and will contaminate your life. This happened to me many years ago. I stay away from people that claim they are a prophet. You should never have to address yourself as a prophet. It has become a religious circus. The world laughs at us. No, I am not bitter. Just much learned.
Peter this is for your education!
If you were at Lakeland I would suggest you give prayer serious consideration to a deliverance ministry help!
Just for information purposes – I have a friend who is doing a video documentary around the supposed Lakeland Healings – that still have not shown to be truth as well as the resurrections from the dead.
I was asked were are the hurt well let me leave this with you for whatever its value is for you and your readers.
I would recommend that you do a simple search of the blogs on Lakeland and those who have been hurt. I feel this will educate you for sure.
If you were in lakeland then I strongly recommend again you receive deliverance ministry to rid yourself of the demonic spirits of lakeland.
Here are examples of hurt people from the Lakeland experience as well Dutch Sheet’s apology on the hurting events of Lakeland.
I am attaching them to my response!Please at least read the last individual view. If one is hurt it is to many and to loose one from the flock because of the muddy waters of Lakeland then it was to costly!
I know an elder who would fit for Todd’s restoration – Andrew Strom – He was part of the Kansas city revival later repented of his support and initial involvement with that revival. I know there are others – !
I forgive you for accusing me of false aligations but what is truth to you is pure falseness. The prophets were the ones from the Wagener’s group who annointed Todd collectively at Lakeland and have since changed their positon including the supposed prophet who shakes her head Violently. She to have retracted here postion her prophesy.
Responses to “Dutch Sheets Lakeland Statement”
John August 22, 2008
No doubt a big mistake was made. I thank Dutch for finally (although too late) speaking the truth. It is sad that our leaders fear man more than God and therefore he will raise up true prophets that will fear Him more than Man. I for one, will not trust any of these men again!
Sam Buick August 22, 2008
Since 1994, the charismatic movement has been filled with teaching that is full of error and the lack of correction for the error has led us all to Lakeland and the Bentley debacle. I was swept up with the Toronto Blessing when I was in the Vineyard and have seen it for what it is. Fraudulent of a real move of God. No preaching of the Gospel of the Kingdom, a minimizing of sin, lack of godliness and Christian character, the lack of brokenness before God, a lack of humility, a fixation on power gifts and ministry, and little else. Ironically, all these outpourings since 1994 have had little to no impact on the region where the outbreak took place. This is a far cry from previous revivals. The curtain has been lifted and the scam has been exposed for what it is, the “wizard” is but a man! All the Dorothy’s can click their heels and go back to Kansas! The frauds have been exposed, and that includes the sham “apostolic movement” that paraded itself in commissioning Bentley. I cannot believe how filled with error the movement has become. May God have mercy upon us.
It has now been a couple of weeks since I heard about Todd Bentley’s plans for separation and divorce. Like everyone, I have had a variety of emotions
including anger, sadness, and grief. Every time I see this scenario repeated, I
grieve: for the husband and wife involved; for the family that will be scarred in so
many ways; because of the incredible reproach it brings to Christ; and the
distortion it gives concerning God’s heart and ways. I am praying for Todd and
his family. Taken from – Dutch Sheet – A Statement and Appeal Regarding Lakeland – August 21, 2008
Mistakes at Lakeland
Did leaders handling the Lakeland situation make mistakes? Yes—huge mistakes. Beyond the obvious fruit of salvations and healings, can good come from Lakeland, as some have suggested, even with the recent revelations concerning Todd Bentley? Yes, but only if there is complete honesty and transparency, the removal of all attempts at self-preservation, and absolute humility from all sides. Dutch Sheet – A Statement and Appeal Regarding Lakeland – August 21, 2008
Neophyte August 27, 2008
Love and respect you, Brother Dutch, and agree with much of what you had to say about the situation in Lakeland and the body of Christ in general. But, you know, when all’s said and done I have to admit I feel like a young girl who’s been molested most of her life, and there comes a time when she says, “Enough!”
Yes, enough. Leave us alone. Please leave His church, His people, His bride, alone. All you “leaders”. All you pharisees, saducees, and teachers of the law. Please take your hands off us and let us be.
You’ve been telling us all these years that you’re meeting our needs. That we need you. That we can’t do “it” without you. But we’ve been seeing for awhile now what’s really been going on. How we’ve been meeting YOUR needs all this time. Our time, our money, our talents, our families, our homes, our hearts and minds, our LIVES… you’ve stuck your hands where they don’t belong for far too long, and it’s time to say, “ENOUGH!”
We’re not going back to business as usual. We’re not going to waste another 10, 20, 30 years listening to your sermons and your teachings and your prophecies and your plans. The product isn’t what’s been advertised and we’re done chasing the carrot. We see it for what it is and we forgive you, but we’re done playing the game.
We’re done gazing up at you from our lowly perches. We’re done saying “How high?” to your “Jump.” We’re done placating your enormous egos and craven need for adulation at our and our families’ expense. For the little scraps we get that fall to the ground from your table. Because, you see, we don’t really need you. At least not the “you” most of us have had all these years. The closest to God, smartest about God, most anointed of God and blessed of God, infallible prophet, priest and king “you”. So, thank you very much, but we’re done pretending the emperor has clothes.
God must come to our hearts and our homes, brothers and sisters. That’s the simple bottom line. All the failings we see in the body of Christ are a direct result of God not taking His place in hearts and homes.
It’s not complicated at all. It’s really very simple. Much simpler than most would have us believe. If God isn’t God of our hearts and homes, what is He God of? And if God isn’t God of our leaders’ hearts and homes, what do they really have to give us? Theory?
They would have us believe “higher levels mean higher devils”. They would have us feel guilty when they fall as if it’s somehow our fault. (When they’re actually caught red-handed, that is. The rest of the time we do as we’re told and look the other way, pretending not to notice because what good would it do anyway?) If only we prayed more or supported them more. If only we gave more. Yes, somehow it’s all our fault. Just like the molested little girl. (But all of this is neither here nor there. Because it’s a brand new day.)
Love God, love others as you love yourself. At least that’s what Jesus said it boiled down to. You know, CHRIST Jesus?
How complicated is that? You need a PhD for that? Even a little child can understand it. How many commandments did God give the people through Moses? This isn’t rocket science, folks. Faith in Jesus’ sacrifice and resurrection remits our sins and creates in us a clean, new heart. So that we can be filled with the Holy Spirit of God who IS love. So that we CAN love. Ta-daa. Pretty basic stuff, I think we’d all agree.
So, please, exalted rulers, please back down and leave us and our families alone. Please know your place. Please TAKE your place. Because you do realize, don’t you, that it’s high time, and then some.
I’m sure you realize, way deep down inside even, that there’s an awful lot of us out here whose shelves are filled to overflowing with your never-ending, not freely given verbiage, who have the audacity to think we might actually be able to do this thing called love… without you. (Oh my God, how could we, it’s all so horribly complicated!!)
Please, know your place, take your place. With all due respect.
Shalom,
One though many of His children
As I am not in the ministry, I still saw right thru the hooplah in Lakeland. I am not bragging. It has nothing to do with me whatsoever. But I never watched it for one minute. My heart was very very troubled when I found out that big name ministers were backing Bentley. It just confirmed to me more and more that there is more error now than ever before. And when there is error, there is the demonic. And that is nothing but trouble, heartache and tragedy. The first time I saw Bentley on TV was back in 2007. I knew then to turn him off. What we need more of is discernment. I have relatives who are tattooing themselves for Jesus. What a joke!
I believe in restoring those who are truly repentant. But to be honest, Todd needs deliverance from many demons. There are alot of ministers who need to be deli vered from demons. This is why I stay home and have my prayer time and study in The Word of God. I have dear friends (maybe 2) who are truly living a Godly life that I have fellowship with. I don’t allow just anyone to sit at my table.
SMBGA, since you never watched Lakeland for one minute, I don’t think you have any right to comment on it. If all you know of Todd Bentley is from seeing him briefly on TV in 2007, I really think you should apologise for inflicting on the rest of us your ignorant prejudices about him.
Bob, have you read what Stacey Campbell, “the supposed prophet who shakes her head Violently”, actually wrote? It is here. She has not retracted her prophecy. Here is her summary of what she wrote:
In other words, fulfilment of the prophecy, which is Todd’s destiny, has been delayed by his sin, but it will still happen if he repents. That is not a retraction, as this kind of prophecy for an individual’s life should always be understood as conditional on their continued walk with God.
As for the other statements you quote, I acknowledge that a lot of people are expressing anger and various other ungodly emotions about Lakeland. I wonder how many of them have actually experienced Lakeland at first hand? At least SMBGA admits to not watching even one minute of it. While Neophyte makes some good points about what Christians should be like, it seems that he/she has a horribly distorted image of what Todd and others are in fact like. It could hardly be less appropriate than to call him one of “All you pharisees, saducees, and teachers of the law.” This false image would soon be corrected by actually experiencing what happened at Lakeland.
Meanwhile I am still waiting for even one example of anyone who actually attended Lakeland, or even watched it on TV, who was genuinely hurt by that experience. I don’t count those who have been hurt by those who have spent the last several months trying to be as hurtful as they possibly can about Lakeland.
It doesn’t take but just a minute to ask God about an individual. The first time I saw Bentley in 2007 the Lord let me know right away the spirit behind him. That is why I turned him off. If God doesn’t approve of someone, then I don’t either. It is sad that many in the church are offended at the truth. I pray that he will allow God to clean him up. As I stated earlier, he needs to be delivered and set free. It’s one thing to be saved and filled with the Holy Spirit. But it’s a whole different ballgame to be delivered and set free from demons.
Peter said:
“Meanwhile I am still waiting for even one example of anyone who actually attended Lakeland, or even watched it on TV, who was genuinely hurt by that experience.”
You might want to consider the letter written to the Lakeland Ledger newspaper by a medical professional about one of her patients, published on July 5. The link should appear below.
http://www.theledger.com/article/20080705/NEWS/588942307
Thank you Sean!
I kown is to help with the real healing after Lakeland that is so necessary!
bob
Bob again!
Thanks again Sean!
For you Peter – Wake up now and get yourself far away from Lakeland and Todd Bentley!
‘Healed’? Double-Check Source – the ledger.com
Published: Saturday, July 5, 2008 at 7:15 a.m.
Last Modified: Saturday, July 5, 2008 at 7:15 a.m.
After the June 22 front-page article on the Florida Outpouring Revival [“Signs and Warnings”], I simply have to speak up. I am a psychotherapist. Several weeks ago, the mother of a young adult patient of mine called for an appointment for her son.
He had been stable for quite some time on his medications for schizophrenia. He had recently decompensated, and was hospitalized in order to stabilize him and restart his medications.
He had attended one of Todd Bentley’s gatherings and was told by Mr. Bentley that he was “healed.” He stopped his medications, only to relapse into psychosis.
The outcome could have been worse. My client has very risky behaviors when psychotic. He might have died.
Please, if you think you have been “healed” of mental or physical illness, please consult your doctor before stopping medications or treatment. Your life may depend on it.
BRIDGET PIEKARSKI, MS, LMHC
Lakeland
Let us have some grace and mercy for Todd and stop pointing fingers and giving negative examples, remember we belong to a positive Kingdom! Many of us have been raised in good Christian homes in a sheltered loving atmosphere. In Todds case he had been living on the streets and into every kind of vice from a young age before God brought him into his Kingdom. So ……..he fell back but he had the courage to seek Gods will way out of most peoples comfort zones. Like Peter he stepped out of the boat and risked walking on water while the rest stayed in the safe place of the boat. Peter started sinking and Jesus rescued him from a watery grave and what about King David?. I believe that Jesus will bring Todd back up again because God did begin a good work in his life.
Hello David!
Todd is not the only one who faced these types of happenings in his childhood and as a teenager – I understand what you are saying and like you I to look for recovery but not at the point were he left at lakeland. This is Todd’s second break with similar behavior – an affair and drinking but -accountability and integrity is what the Book of James speaks about as qualities of those who would be in leadership.
If you fall back or If I fall back our impact is small but when a man functions in the position that Todd had – his impact goes on for years as will be the case for the Lakeland false revival.
This will always be remebered as the rivival it never was!
What about the people who functioned around the truth of Todd Bentley? I understand everyones desire for Todd but he is not what is important with Lakeland it is the church, it is the young in their christian walk, it is those right or wrongly that saw Todd as the repersentative of Jesus Christ – what about their pain and discouragement, disappointment and their fall back from the fall out of lakeland – who is there for them to help with their recovery??
I am not negative – but rather the truth needs to be spoken so we can be free from the Lakeland Foul Spirits.
Todd will be dealt with in God’s time – Todd was warned by God He was going to stop Him (Todd). He did not listen – now he will have lots of time to listen to the true voice of God. God has grounded him – now begins his (Todd)real healing.
David:
Todd Bentley could have been a great evangelist. As such, God could have used him to preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction (2 Timothy 4:1-4). Many could have left the Florida Outpouring truly born again–saved, sanctified, and redeemed.
But history records that Todd Bentley was conditioned and deceived from the beginning–groomed and mentored by those conditioned and deceived before him. What began with Bentley’s reading of Benny Hinn’s book, “Good Morning, Holy Spirit,” germinated over the years and emerged into controversy, fine-tuned deception, and a resurgence of William Banham-ism (“The Reality of the Holy Spirit Part 1,” November 16, 2004, http://tinyurl.com/Bentley-Hinn ).
Until Todd Bentley arrived on the scene, Benny Hinn was considered by many as the most prolific heretic, false prophet, and false healer on the planet. Hinn’s deceptive influence, including the manifestations and feelings of “electricity” that permeate his false ministry, helped lay the foundation for Todd Bentley’s false teachings.
And only God knows how many people Benny Hinn has deceived over the years, and how many he will deceive in years to come (if there is any doubt, go to
http://www.christianresearchservice.com/Benny_Hinn.htm ).
And speaking of William Branham, it didn’t matter that he was a false prophet who denied the Trinity and the deity of Jesus Christ. It didn’t matter that Branham was overshadowed by demonic angels. It didn’t matter that Branham’s teachings and claims failed the tests of God’s word and were rejected by solid, Bible-based Christians worldwide ( http://www.letusreason.org/Latrain4.htm ).
How much discernment does one need to avoid a false prophet and false teacher?
While rumors and opinions abound, I believe wholeheartedly that God put a stop to the Lakeland Outpouring. His doing so should be a loud wake-up call and severe warning to everyone involved. Professing Christians cannot engage in much of what took place and expect God to bless and approve.
In no way, shape, form, or fashion does God condone or honor false prophets and false teachers. They have always been rejected by God–both in the Old and New Testaments–and have NEVER been a part of the body of Christ.
While Todd Bentley is responsible for his own actions, and should be held accountable for the sins he committed, he is a precious soul for whom Jesus Christ died for. Bentley needs solid, Bible-based Christians to minister to him, not false prophets and false teachers.
I pray God will be merciful and open Todd Bentley’s eyes and ears to the truth, and salvation in Jesus Christ.
Sincerely in Christ,
Bud Press
Shane again,
Peter, thanks for this sight, I just pray that we will be delivered from oursleves, knowing that we who are spiritual are to restore those who have fallen.
I want to say something conerning prophecy, and those who obviously donot understand the way it operates. 1st of all, if I give you instructions to drive from Florida to New York, and I give you a map, and on that map I have specific stores, hotels and other stops included that grants you all of the needs you will need on the entire trip. Your gas is provided, you meals, and your rooms. But if you decide to go your own way, and travel to New York another direction, you will not recieve the benefits that were promised for you. Prophecy in the New Testament church is very much like that. If a prophet, Peter Wagner, Dutch Sheets, Rick Joyner or any other prophetic voice prophesies to you, and you go another direction, say you leave the ministry and go else where, does this mean that the prophetic words were false? Not at all. Gods will was for the prophesies to come to pass, but you deviate from the path, it is not Gods fault nor is it the prophets fault. Why do we think that Paul admonished Timothy to war a good warfare with the prophecies that went before him, because Paul understood that if he didnt fight with the prophetic word he could lose it.
Im sorry if I offend, but those who declare Rick Joyner and others like Peter Wagner a heritic, do not know the same Spirit I know. I believe we must try the spirits, but if our trying is not in Love than we do greatly err. We have traded our discernment for suspicion, and this ought not be! I myself will rejoice to see all our fallen leaders restored and the God who redeemed you also redeemed me, and in the end, I believe all that are His will be restored. Every prodical will come home.
Shane
Please keep in mind, I said those who are His, those who have been born again will be restored, Some may be lost, but I will belive otherwise.
Shane
Hi Shane:
If I may ask you just two questions:
1. Specifically, what is a false prophecy?
2. In light of Deuteronomy 18:21-22 and Matthew 24:24, when is someone considered a false prophet?
Thanks,
Bud Press
Th Old Testament style of prophet was ordained to establish doctrine and law, not a trait of New testament prophecy (which we find in 1Cor 12,14,is for exhortaion, edification and comfort)100% accuracy is not the case. We can truly see this with Agabus in Acts 21, He told Paul that the Jews would bind him if he went to Jeruslem. In fact it was the Gentile soldiers that bound Paul. 100 % acurate, not exactly but very close. One form of prophecy is found through the preaching style that comes out of alot of our churches. Such as traditional churches like the AOG, of the COG. It is a style where the preacher alows the Spirit to speak through them and they then begin to exhort through a arithmic style of speaking. Just sometimes they begin to speak from their soul, and therefore the words are tainted with self. I dont know about you, but I have heard many preachers preach and out of ignorance, they would declare something from behind the pulpit that was unacurate. This did not make them a false prophet, or preacher, just an ignorant one.
As examined in the above blogs I believe we have examined what a false prophet is, or was. An example of a false prophet in the Old Testament and brought over to the New is Balaam. This man was not a false prophet because on inacuracy of prophecy. Balaam predicted in beaytiful articulation the comeing of the Messiah, but at the end of his life Jude says that outerdarkness would be his dwellingplace. The end of the story…no repentance, no change, Balaam lost it all because he loved greed, and wouild not humble himself before the Lord. We must give men the space to grow and mature in their giftings. We know them by their fruit…In Bently’s life we some bad fruit, but the end result of the ministry is yet to be seen.
Now concerning Todd, I believe it was unwise for him to have been thrust into the spotlight. Obviously he was not ready for that. Do I belive that we deserve an apology from those who condoned Lakeland, absalutly! And many have posted blogs, Bill Johnson, Peter Wagner expresses deeply why he did what he did.Dutch Sheets corporatly apologized fro the whole thing. Yet if we donnot recieve one from Todd himself, I will leave that in the hands of the Lord. If true repentrance and doctrianl correction comes out of Todd and his ministry, I will rejoice. If not then time will tell. I pray and hope that those who are advising him will use wisdom, and do the right thing.
Shane
Shane…if the prophecy does not come to pass 100% that prophet is not of God. Easy! Your “drive your way to San Francisco via The Bahamas and thereby miss the fulfilment explanation of prophecy” is a cop-out for those who have the view that baby prophets are “just practicing and are only about 60% accurate”. Both you and I have heard that excuse. Come on!! Look a bit deeper into the bible, and try and face the fact that there are a lot….read lot….of false prophets and prophecy out there.
Others…regarding Todd…Whether it’s Bill J or anyone else, they need to deal with the spiritual realm re Todd and see clarly there if they have any hope of discerning correctly / moving on effectively in Christ. And Wagner’s 24 points to deal with? Such a lot of stuff to sort in spirit too, including his own house. May God give true insight and remove the false way, as King David prayed. THIS is the area to sort in the aftermath of Lakeland. There IS a false way. In spirit. It can look pretty good too!
Jesus Christ is faihful. The false way is not. It builds up and then brings down. Todd was spiritually primed for this (spirit-primed…think about that) way before Lakeland by this false way spirit which built him up and then brought him down. Happens to many. Tactic of the false way…revivals go that way because of this spirit. Deal with it in the prophets and ministers and the people won’t be duped.
Eskimez do you normaly speak in half sentences?
Now I do agree that the 60% accuracy has been abused and used to make excuses for false prophecies, this is true. None the less we aould argue till the cows come home, and I dont look for them anytime soon rather Christians move in 100% accuracy. I believ the day is coming that we will, but as of now, Im not perfect, and if you are still on earth and have not translated like Enoch, I suppose you have imperfections also. To say that it is impossible for a man or woman of God to miss the mark is to say that individual is perfect. Come on, we know better than this. What I know is that my life I daily study the scriptures and seek My Lord in prayer. Yet if I wait untill I operate in 100% accuracy, rather that be in prophecy, or just discussion like we are in right now, I would never open my mouth, and it is safe to say neither would you. Again I agree that we use exuses to make up for false prophecies. None the less, when a mam or woman misses the mark, I would submit that he who is without sin cast the 1st stone. I think that they use to stone men who missed the mark in the OT. They stoned rebellious children also. Thank God for grace, not for exscuse for sin, but for the enablement to keep going in the mist of the pressure.
Shane
Shane don’t get off on a side road like so many others….the issues are spiritual….see into that realm by the Holy Spirit and you figure what’s what. There is a false way, a “spirit of false witness”, which infects the so-called church. It builds up and then brings down. A spiritual device or tactic of the devil. Shane I am not debating, I am trying to shed some light which I don’t see given from those who should have clearer discernment and who are supposed to be investigating issues around Todd. It’s not just a cerebral exercise.
No more posts from me. My first post could be read again by yourself I think. And short sentences are ok! Here’s one:- Bless you!
Bless you too, Eskimez,
Eskimez,
I know you said you were done, but mabey you will read this, I just want to clearify that I donnot denie the muddy waters of Bentlys ministry. My previous blog had nothing to do with that. I was refering to the prophetic ministry in general which was posed by Bud Press.
Shane:
Concerning the Apostle Paul being bound, let’s take a look at what God’s written word says:
“As we were staying there for some days, a prophet named Agabus came down from Judea. And coming to us, he took Paul’s belt and bound his own feet and hands, and said, ‘This is what the Holy Spirit says: ‘In this way the Jews at Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles'” (Acts 21:10-11).
In Acts 21:27-40, the Jews seized Paul (the owner of his belt), and handed him over to the Roman soldiers who, in turn, bound Paul with chains. The prophecy was fulfilled.
Now, to my questions. I asked:
1. Specifically, what is a false prophecy?
2. In light of Deuteronomy 18:21-22 and Matthew 24:24, when is someone considered a false prophet?
In many areas, there is a tremendous misunderstanding and even severe misinterpretation of Scripture concerning what is a false prophecy. Within the guidelines of Christianity, a prophet is one who claims to receive divine revelation from God; in other words, God’s mouthpiece.
Some say a prophet can make “mistakes” or deliver a “poor prophecy,” and still be a prophet of God. Not true! Cults such as Mormonism and Jehovah’s Witnesses say the same thing. A true prophet of God never makes mistakes or delivers a poor prophecy while prophesying for God. A false prophet is one who claims to be a mouthpiece for God, but foretells false prophecy.
God’s written word has much to say about false prophets:
-treacherous (Zephaniah 3:4)
-covetous (Micah 3:11)
-crafty (Matthew 7:15)
-drunken (Isaiah 28:7)
-wicked and profane (Jeremiah 23:11-14)
-foolish (Ezekiel 13:2)
-compared to the wind, void of the word (Jeremiah 5:13)
-influenced by evil spirits (1 Kings 22:21-22)
-prophesied falsely (Jeremiah 5:31)
-tell lies in the name of the Lord (Jeremiah 14:14)
-prophesied from their own heart (Jeremiah 23:16; 26; Ezekiel 13:2)
-prophesied in the name of false gods (Jeremiah 2:8)
-pretended to have dreams (Jeremiah 23:28-32)
-deceived by God as judgement (Ezekiel 14:9)
-lead people into error (Jeremiah 23:13; Micah 3:5)
-conspire to deceive and steal from precious souls (Ezekiel 22:25)
-followed after and praised (Jeremiah 5:31; Luke 6:26)
-involved people in their own ruin (Isaiah 9:15-16)
-demonstrate signs and wonders and mislead (Matthew 24:24)
-introduce destructive heresies; deny Jesus Christ (2 Peter 2:1)
And how does one detect a false prophet? God’s written word provides the answers:
-Deuteronomy chapter 13
-Deuteronomy 18:21-22
-Matthew 7:15
-Matthew 24:24
-1 Thessalonians 5:21
-2 Peter 2:1
-1 John 4:1-3
The Bible draws a clear distinction between a true and false prophet. With God, there is no margin for error, no excuses, and no justification for a false prophecy. It only takes one lie to be a liar. One is either a true prophet of God or a false prophet.
So, when is someone considered a false prophet? When one claims to be a prophet of God, but delivers a false prophecy. Indeed, claiming to be a prophet of God is deadly serious business.
And, when someone claims to be a prophet of God, but is found guilty of false prophesying, what does God command Christians to do? God commands Christians to guard and protect the body of Christ by exposing false prophets and false teachers (Matthew 7:15; Matthew chapter 24; Romans 16:17-18; Acts 20:27-31; 1 Timothy 6:3-5; Colossians 2:8; Titus 1:9; Ephesians 5:11; Jude 3).
And unless there is sincere repentance, all false prophets and false teachers will be dealt with severely by Jesus Christ on judgement day:
“Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS'” (Matthew 7:22-23, NASB).
In Christian love,
Bud Press
Bud you may note that in that last scripture you quoted many that say to him in that day Lord Lord, actulay did do what they claimed to do, they did cast out demons, they did prophesy. What is the defining poit? They practiced lawlessness, or another translation says iniquity. Much could be said right there.
You wrote:
“As we were staying there for some days, a prophet named Agabus came down from Judea. And coming to us, he took Paul’s belt and bound his own feet and hands, and said, ‘This is what the Holy Spirit says: ‘In this way the Jews at Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles’” (Acts 21:10-11).
In Acts 21:27-40, the Jews seized Paul (the owner of his belt), and handed him over to the Roman soldiers who, in turn, bound Paul with chains. The prophecy was fulfilled.
Come on Bud, lets be honest, Agabus said the Jews would bind Paul, but clearly it wass the Roman soldiers after being handed over to Paul. Again, 100% accuracy,I dont think so. Let me ask you a question, do you claim that you are speaking for God? Are you or are you not a witness to the Lords ressurection? Have you been born again? Then I pray that you are careful with your own words. Lets look at 1st Cor 14:29, The apostle paul teaches us that Prophets are to prophesy two or three at a time, and the others to judge. Judge what? The prophecies. Why? Most likly to judge the accuracy of the prophetics by which they prophecy.
We are in a day where the occult is showing more signs of power than the church, Yet Jesus declared that he would build his church and the gates of hell would not prevail against it! Becareful how you judge, I belive in holiness and my heart must remain pure before the Lord, but the moment i make the prideful assumption that I am right and thats all there is too it, I have all ready fallen. Tell me sir, does the devil have the ability to foretell futire events? Not hardly, phycics predict, and guess and sometimes get it right, yet we must understand that only prophets can truly foretelll future events. In this case I have foretold, and I have been right. I have also heard or felt something in my spirit, not sure if it was me or the Lord. Time could tell. Is my track record accurate, yes it is, does that mean Im infailable, the moment i asume this I have submitted my self to prode and and quickly fallen from the path. God gives grace to the humblem but He resists the proud.
Sir, I am a man that came from a life style of drug abuse, and immoral behaviour. When i was born again I was delivered imedialtly from crystal meth. A prophecy was spoken over my life that I was going to be a preacher. What power i experienced that night! Today i pastor a church and have been preaching for the last 8 years. My point? If I had not come in contact with true power, and the prophetic word where would I be today? You see I grew up in the AOG, there out look on prophcy was like yours, and guess what? they didnt prophesy.
The Holy Spirit is a gentleman, if you think that He is going to possess you and take over your human reasoning and free will to bring forth a prophetic unction, you are badly mistaken. I have seen the so called trance dances that went on in the church growing up. I am persuaded that this sort of destructive behavior is not of the Lord. Yet they belived unless the Lord didnt come on them to where they lost control they were in the flesh. These same people were also very judgmental and I left the church scen for many years untill I came in contact with a ministy who was not afraid to look at a strung out drug addict and say, your a preacher!
Sir, in the realm of revelation you must understand that interpretaion is key. If you donnot belive me, Just look at the book Revelation, Men differ on views of eschotology as they do anything. Why is this, is the Revelation false? No, but some of the interpretaions are. Prophetic ministry is a ministry of revelation, it is a ministry of coming to grips with your self, who you are and your identity in the realm of prophecy and prophetics. Sir, I cannot make you understand what you have not experienced. But I do know that immaturity is a reality, and in prophetic ministry it is quite a journey to the maturation of the giftings and seasoning of the office. My heart is to My Lord. I love Him, He saved me, He redeemed me. He has called me out of darkenss, into the Light. I am blessed today because of Jesus. I prophesy because of His Spirit, If I am to miunderstand a revelation that He gives to me, I will learn from that and grow. One day i will arive, but as for me I am not their yet.
Bud, I ask you, if you willl reference to me the Office of the prophet, please use new testament scriptures. Old testament pophets ceased with John the Baptist. Even so…Many prophets in the old testament died false in the eyes of the peple, why? Because revelation was not understood. This is why Jesus spoke to the Pharisees that it was they who murdered the prophets. Why?, because of self righteousness, they deemed the prophets of Israel as false. But through the scope of time, we find that they were true after all. Wow, to think, Israel was only obeying Moses when they put these men to death. If only their eyes were opened, If only they could have known that what isaiah was prophsying was generations away, If only they knew that Jesus was truly the Messiah in whom they sought. But we know it was they who cried crucify Him, He is a heritic, and a blasphemous man.
Bud, I pray for you, that you weigh your words and judgemnets that bring against other men. Satan plays the role of an Accuser, Jesus the Intercessor. I know which one I want to be.
Many blesings,
Shane
As I may be off on the wrong foot here, there is a book that has been out for a few years by John Bevere. ‘Thus Saith The Lord’. I highly recommend it. It was a real eye opener for myself and my family. It deals with prophets and being contaminated by false prophesy. Because of this book, I no longer allow anyone to prophesy over me or lay hands on me either.
SMBGA, usually it takes more than a minute to hear God’s answer and distinguish it from our own prejudices. You obviously realise that your first impressions are not always reliable, as otherwise you would use this to test people offering to prophesy over you rather than consistently rejecting this gracious gift offered to you by God.
Sean, thank you for the link. I entirely agree with the following:
Did Todd Bentley or his team tell this person anything different? If they were acting responsibly they actually told people this message.
Bob, there is nothing in this article to make me think worse of Todd. But if you are “not negative” in referring to “Lakeland Foul Spirits” (which looks to me like blasphemy against the Holy Spirit), then what does real negativity look like?
Shane, thanks for your support, although I don’t consider you are moving in 100% accuracy 😉
Bud, was Jonah a false prophet when he prophesied that Nineveh would be overthrown but it wasn’t? Clearly his prophecy was implicitly conditional, dependent on people continuing on the path they were on. So there is something more to true and false prophecy than you understand.
I do realize that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are very precious indeed. But because humans have abused them, this is what I am referring to. And I also know that prophets can miss it at times. But because of the words from prophets in the past, I tend to want to hear from God myself. I think of all the individuals that have possibly gone home from the Lakeland meetings with more demons than what they came with. There is such a thing as transferring of spirits. Many don’t believe it. But I certainly do. Know the spirit behind the individual.
SMBGA, I am glad that you want to hear from God yourself. But you need to spend time in his presence to do that, not give him less than a minute to answer.
Thanks Peter, I am thankful for what accuracy I move in, lol,
You know what? the occult is making havoc of our teenagers and we as the church are in such disagreement. This out not be so! We will learn in the coming days that we are the body of Christ, a living breathing organism. When we discover this truth beyond just a head knowledge we will become enlightened to the fact that true unity will be found in our diversity. True unity will be achieved!
SMBGA. I would like to that we must not fear the deception of the enemy above the truth of Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth.
Truth is people will talk about you reguardless, I will take as much positive confession that I can get. I am not dismissing transferal of spirits, But I am obviously letting you know that the spirits that take hold of a belivers life by laying on of hands will have one hell of a ride (excuse my articulation) Greater is He that is in me then he that is in this world. If I sence the oppression, or burden from the evil one, I simply submit myself to God, resist the devil, and he really does flee! Is that not awsome!
God is good. We shouldnt lay hands suddenly on no man, Yet Im sure that is refering more to ordination in ministry, then ministering prayer and prophecy.
By the way, I do appreciate John Bevere, but I would not put more faith in satan to decieve me than Christ to lead me in truth.
Blessings,
Shane
Shane: In the last 10 years, I have experienced more deception in the church than ever before. Along with this deception, comes alot of hurt. It was a time when I would take the words of ministers very serious. After being burned many times, I found it easier to deal with just to back away. I have not backed away from God. But I realized that I put too much faith and trust in man than I did in God. This is what caused me to be so disappointed in the ministry. Yes, they are only mere humans. No one is above making mistakes. But there comes a time when one doesn’t feel like being hurt any more. I have truly forgiven all. I do not dwell on the past. But have learned that my relationship is based solely on the Word of God and my time with Him. Thank you for your words.
Peter – Pastor – I forgive you for your accusing fingeer but I thought you just might have enough of your own spiritual self to read this information that collects the Lakeland and Todd’d history.
WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO TODD BENTLEY?
TODD BENTLEY HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM PUBLIC MINISTRY AT LAKELAND REVIVAL
IT HAS ALL GONE MESSY DUE TO SIN!
1. The original question: “Is what is happening in Lakeland Florida true revival?” has now become :”How has it come to this?”. Lies, immorality and periodic drunkenness by Todd Bentley have been reported from official sources
2. Genuine, trustworthy Christian men and women are those who ARE ACTIVELY AND PASSIONATELY seeking to become more like Jesus – pure and holy. If you experience a check in your spirit, watch for a person’s behaviour. Sooner or later their true self will emerge in their behaviour – either godly or ungodly. Jesus said: “a tree is known by its fruit”. The outworking of a person’s life and behaviour is, ultimately, the evidence of the kind of person they are.
BEWARE OF FOLLOWING AFTER PEOPLE – AND EXPERIENCES !
PEOPLE ARE FRAIL CREATURES WHO CAN FALL, AS YOU WILL SEE FROM THE NEWS UNFOLDING BELOW ABOUT TODD BENTLEY.
3. THE FOLLOWING DEVELOPMENTS ARE REPORTED FROM TODD BENTLEY’S WEBSITE:
AUGUST 12th 2008 update:
Source: Todd Bentley’s FreshFire website (FRESHFIRE BOARD OF DIRECTORS)
“It is with considerable sadness then, that we must temper the jubilation we know you all feel with the sobering news that Todd and Shonnah Bentley are presently experiencing significant friction in their relationship and are currently separated. We want to affirm that there has been no sexual immorality on the part of either Todd or Shonnah, nor has there ever been.”
AUGUST 15th 2008 update:
Source: Todd Bentley’s FreshFire website (FRESHFIRE BOARD OF DIRECTORS)
“We wish to acknowledge, however, that since our last statement from the Fresh Fire Board of Directors, we have discovered new information revealing that Todd Bentley has entered into an unhealthy relationship on an emotional level with a female member of his staff. In light of this new information and in consultation with his leaders and advisors, Todd Bentley has agreed to step down from his position on the Board of Directors and to refrain from all public ministry for a season to receive counsel in his personal life.”
4. OTHER DEVELOPMENTS:
AUGUST 17th 2008 update:
John Arnott of Toronto Airport Christian fellowship (TACF) also reports on the TACF website:
“Todd has chosen to do something that is wrong according to Scripture, and his timing to announce it was equally inappropriate. Everyone is asking, “What happened?” “Why didn’t anyone see this coming?” We are making the answers to those questions a matter of prayer, and are as shocked and saddened by what has just happened as you are. Furthermore, it has now come out that there has been some inappropriate behavior, both with excessive drinking and also with a female member of his staff. Please don’t jump to conclusions or assume the worst, but this behavior is wrong before the Lord.
5. LIES WERE SPOKEN FROM THE PLATFORM AT LAKELAND
“On the financial front, Todd recently told the crowd that God had told him that there were 1,000 people who would give $1,000 and that they would be blessed 1,000-fold. Robert called Stephen Strader to confront the unbiblical nature of that appeal. It came out that Todd admitted he hadn’t heard that from God, that it was just an idea he had so that they could raise money to build a big stadium. Robert challenged them to issue an apology the following night based on that false claim of being told by God and they refused to do it on the excuse that it’s a different crowd every night”.
6. AUGUST 25th 2008 Update from C Peter Wagner, one of the group who comissioned Bentley at Lakeland:
“Since this is an update, I will share some of what I know about what is happening with Bentley, but not all because some things need more verification and it is up to discernment of Revival Alliance what and when this will be revealed. Suffice it to say that there is more than I am going to mention. First of all, Todd has been removed from public ministry until further notice. He has resigned from the ministry he founded, Fresh Fire, so he is no longer a part of that board. It has become clear that he indulged in periodic drunkenness. He has no intention at the moment of reconciling with Shonna, nor does she with him. Their marriage has been torn for years by his emotional attachment with at least one other female whose physical contact went beyond hugging and kissing and holding hands. Enough said-maybe more details will be revealed later-but it was clearly immoral. All of this was skillfully concealed by lying and by swearing close associates who had observed his behavior to secrecy. Stephen Strader, for example, knew nothing of this before June 23. Apparently some of his board members did, but they did not have the ability to deal with it.”
7. On the positive side, Dutch Sheets has issued the following statement:
“”My assignment from the Lord is to repent on behalf of the leadership of the Charismatic Body of Christ. We have failed the Lord and His people in many ways. We must repent if we are to be trusted in the future. We, the leaders of the Charismatic community, have operated in an extremely low level of discernment. Frankly, we often don’t even try to discern. We assume a person’s credibility based on gifts, charisma, whether they can prophesy, or work a miracle.”
8. Finally, a word (from a prayer warrior) to those who are grieved and hurt through all this Todd Bentley mess:
“You watched and you believed and you may have even been healed at the Lakeland meetings. You are wondering…”how could I have been deceived? The Truth is.. you were drawn by God..you had a hungry heart and God loves hungry hearts. As a matter of fact God is drawn to hungry hearts …like a magnet.
I talked to several people who went to Lakeland and everyone of them said, “they saw a huge hunger for God in the people.” Their comments were not about Todd…they were about how everyone was ministering to each other. How people were getting healed and encouraged and touched by God in hallways, in the bathrooms. It’s so amazing how God shows up in spite of everything. So, for those of you who were touched by God by watching TV or in the meetings…hang on to it! That’s precious and grow in it…don’t let go of that hunger.
The “Body of Christ” is in great need of deliverance, healing, and transformation. In order for that to take place the “yuk” must be exposed. I believe what Dutch sheets said in his Letter to the “Church”… really was from God. God has used him to begin the process of deliverance…he’s exposing the sin in “THE BODY” especially in leaders. The fact that he asked for forgiveness…that was powerful. The flood gates are open. This is the shift, this is the shaking we’ve all been hearing about…this is the tidal wave so many have seen in dreams. It’s going throughout the world. If we come clean before the Lord we will ride it out…if not we’ll go under.
Todd Bentley is a type of what’s in the Body of Christ. How many in the “Body” are living in immorality, deceit, and family infidelity?
Get ready…there’s more to come and many more will be exposed. Intercessors all over the world are praying for exposure. God is answering that prayer!
Oh God, give us all a Holy dose of the Fear of God! Bring us all into repentance!”
From a Prayer Warrior – A praying mom!
Very Good, I really like Dutch!
Yes praying mom! There is much more to come. Everything on the earth is being shaken that can be shaken!
1. SCRIPTUAL EVIDENCE THE LAKELAND REVIVAL IS NOT OF GOD:
(2Co 11:4). For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
The “Jesus” that Todd Bentley is preaching is not the Jesus of the Bible. His “Jesus” doesn’t preach and emphasize deep repentance, denying self and carrying the cross, selling one’s possessions to give to the poor and needy, forsaking ALL to follow him, and freely bestows his “anointing” on all who have heretical or bad doctrine and loose, immoral lives.
The “spirit” that Todd Bentley is operating under is causing manifestations that DO NOT APPEAR anywhere in the Bible. He has been known to cause animal manifestations as well (clucking like chickens, barking like dogs, etc.), all of which are manifestations that have long been associated with pagan and heathen religions but are found nowhere in Scripture, except with Nebechanezzar at the judgment of God.
The “gospel” that Todd preaches is a gospel of seeking after signs and wonders. It’s hocus pocus. Angel feathers, gold dust, diamonds falling, seeing female angels, again, all of which are found nowhere in Scripture. Seeking after miracles and not after the face and heart and burden of God is a deadly delusion that will lead one straight into accepting “another spirit”. There are MANY spirits in the world, which is why we are called both to test the spirits, and to test those who purport to be prophets and teachers by their DOCTRINE. Their doctrine must be solid and sound, and Todd’s is more new age and hype than it is sound Bible doctrine.
(2Th 2:8-11). And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming. Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.
We need not say that just because there are many genuine miracles, that the whole move must be of God. The Anti-Christ himself will do many signs and wonders. And the mystery of lawlessness (anti-Christ deception) is already at work in the world. Anti-Christ doesn’t necessary outright oppose Christ, instead, he counterfeits him.
(2Co 11:13-15). For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
Angel encounters are a constant theme in his meetings, and people just soak it all up, not even thinking to seriously question it. But who is to say these angels are truly the angels of the Lord God, and not emissaries of Satan sent to deceive? Todd claims that his healing anointing comes from an angel, but there is no record in all of Scripture of an angel giving somebody an anointing. The Holy Spirit is the only One who anoints God’s ministers. If the anointing is from an angel, it’s a huge red flag.
(Col 2:18-19). Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshiping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
Glean what you will from that Scripture, but do note this, it is a very dangerous thing to speak constantly of angels and to give them the glory for an anointing. I don’t want any part of an anointing from any angel, I only want the HOLY SPIRIT’S anointing, period. Because I don’t know whether it’s an angel of God or an angel of light sent to deceive.
(Mat 7:22-23). Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Note, just because somebody:
1. Calls Jesus “Lord”
2. Prophesies
3. Casts out demons
4. Does many *wonderful* works (which includes healing people)
Just because they do all these things DOES NOT mean they are of God! It’s not a few, but MANY, that do these things and do not belong to the true Jesus of the Bible.
The Catholic Church still does genuine exorcisms (casting out demons) to this day but they are serious idolaters who preach ‘another gospel’. Signs and wonders is no proof of being genuine or not.
The only way we can tell is by:
1. The doctrine of the teacher (2 John)
2. The fruit of their life (Mat. 7)
3. Discerning of the spirit they operate under (1 Cor 12)
PLEASE PEOPLE RUN FOR YOUR LIFE FROM THIS END-TIME DECEPTION!!! IT IS A DANGEROUS THING TO EMBRACE ANOTHER SPIRIT THAT’S NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT!!!
In Christ – Josef Urban
Thank you for the latest comments. Bob, you will find that I have already quoted or linked to the articles you quote on this blog, except for #8, so please don’t repeat what I write in comments here. Praying mom’s comments are interesting: God certainly was and still is at work, despite Todd’s sin, but I don’t think that implies that God was not at work through Todd.
Peter thank you again for allowing me access to your blog!
God is the Judge of everything and so in time the full truth of Lakeland will be known!
The Jezebel Spirit
In the last days, the latter times, there will be an onslaught against the faith (Jude), the genuine believer will be tested, and the results of this testing to come is apostasy, (renunciation of Faith- Religious Allegiance) a great falling away. In the first century Paul faced the Judaizers who had bewitched the Galatians and then he dealt with asceticism (harshness). Apostle John in the end of the first century saw Gnosticism (a pre-Christian and early Christian religious movement teaching that salvation comes by learning obscure spiritual truths that free humanity from the material world, believed in this movement to be evil) invade the halls of faith. However, Paul also told of the apostasy (renunciation of Faith) to come, and it will be a great falling away from the truth, a departure from what is true to believe what is not true, and this seduction will take place as a result of the Jezebel spirit for the most part.
First let’s take a look at what Paul saw in the Spirit and wrote for our benefit. 1 Timothy 4:1-3 ¶ Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. The Holy Spirit revealed to Paul what the latter times would bring, a raging onslaught of false doctrine that will be empowered by the demonic realm, seducing spirits.
When seducing spirits are at work, the individuals most often think they are fine, they are having great theological ideas given them, revelations that are coming from the lord, but in fact they are false doctrines and must be tested to see if they are of God, tested against Scripture, that is Scripture that is interpreted using sound hermeneutical skills. Demon spirits entice what appeals to the flesh, they bring forth unsound doctrines that will “feel” good, as emotions can be manipulated and they can be wrong when it comes done to truth especially when truth contradicts feeling as it almost always will. The apostasy many times comes from “good” people who are sincere in what they believe, but they are sincerely in error, and despite their cries of foul when exposed, they are sincerely wrong and must be exposed as such overturning their false doctrines for the truth.
There are some very distinct characteristics of seducing spirits from Paul’s letter to Timothy. First they are in the faith, they are in the church, they are members in good standing and they are more than members on a role, but they are able to instruct because Paul makes clear that some depart from the faith as a result of their instruction. They may be ministers or deacons or Sunday school teachers, but for some to depart from the faith, these people must and do teach their destructive heresies to perhaps some unsuspecting “fools” in the congregation. Paul makes clear that we are to NOT take what someone says as the truth, by as is by nature for disciples [learners], they study God’s Word to know what it says, and NOT what someone or some group says. 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. Many “religions” exist and have existed from the beginning, but age doesn’t make them true and far too many in the church world go further than tolerate things, they embrace them into their own belief system because they sound or feel good. False teachers will not let go of their false doctrine because their conscience is seared, they have no desire for the truth. Those who want the truth allow themselves to be taught as well as teach, they are accountable, and they are responsible.
Paul taught clearly that the Law was dead to the believer, it was obsolete as the writer of Hebrews said (Hebrews 8:13), that we are saved by grace (Ephesians 2:8), and NOT grace plus the Mosaic Law. Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
John went on to address the conclusion of Gnosticism that what is done in the flesh means nothing against the spirit of man. John deals with the issue of sin, what it is, and who is a sinner. 1 John 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: John refutes the Gnosticism theory (a pre-Christian and early Christian religious movement teaching that salvation comes by learning esoteric spiritual truths that free humanity from the material world, believed in this movement to be evil) and shows what the truth is, the flesh does matter, and if we are sinning, if we are walking in darkness, and we say we are fine, we lie to ourselves and to others who we give this false doctrine to. Gnosticism of the day has had a name change, but the false doctrine is still taught, it is called eternal security or Once Saved Always Saved. It is Gnostic in origin and just as it was false doctrine in the first century, it remains false doctrine in this century.
The sad reality of the Jezebel spirit is yet to be made. Look at where this person is! She is teaching in the church! The Jezebel spirit has no boundaries, but she seduces well known and famous people to teach her false doctrines, television evangelists with huge empires, their own little kingdoms to seduce God’s people. Jezebel is endorsed and welcomed into the church to seduce the servants of God. Revelation 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. Jezebel is welcomed into the church to destroy the church. The church embraces false doctrines for its own destruction, and welcomes them!
Jezebel was married to Ahab, king of the ten northern tribes called Israel. Jezebel ruled the nation through her husband. I have in times past humorously labeled this duo, Jezebel and the Jelly Fish, a spineless creature, no backbone to stand for himself. Beginning in 1 Kings 16 we gather much information about Ahab and Jezebel, and we see the severity of the Jezebel spirit. The whole purpose was idolatry, to stray away from God to another or others, (Jezebel led Israel to worship the Baals and the Ashtoreth. Mythology), to rid the world of believers and to establish evil as good, to be able to do what you wanted. Jezebel even went so far as to have Naboth murdered to give his vineyard to Ahab because he liked it. The Jezebel spirit has nothing good in it, and all the doctrines bring one result, apostasy (the renunciation of Faith), wandering away from the truth until one is no longer able to see the truth, but accepts everything that is evil and thinks they are fine as they are.
With all this information about Jezebel and the Jezebel spirit, it boggles my mind to see her allowed to teach in the church. How can we be so stupid to allow Jezebel into pulpits?? For those who would dispute that the Jezebel spirit even exists rejects sound Scriptural facts, and to deny she is teaching in the church is sheer folly. She is teaching in the church and she is endorsed by many to teach. She is there to seduce God’s people with her seductive doctrines that endorse or justify sin in one way or another. The church world is embracing its own seduction rejecting all the Scriptural warnings and admonitions. The Jezebel spirit is behind the apostasy and the Whore of Babylon that will engulf the world. We are truly near the Parousia (Return)of Jesus Christ.
Christians today fall for anything that comes along that looks good, feels good, smells good, etc….. but that’s because of the carnality. The flesh will always get us in trouble. Always! I agree that we must discern the spirit behind the person. If God doesn’t approve of sin, I don’t either. I love the person, but not the sin. Therefore, it takes a mature brother or sister in the Lord to know how to handle matters that crop up. And I agree that the Jezebel spirit has just about taken over. I now can see after trial and error and prayer for God to open my eyes to the truth. As for Todd Bentley, he needs to have the demons cast out of him. I pray he hungers for purity.
I have one scripture to all that are justifying Todd’s failure, “He’s a man and will fall.” Jude 24 To him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy. As Christians we don’t have to sin, we choose it. To anyone who wants to believe that we can’t escape from falling as christians will continually live in defeat and not enjoy compleate freedom that Jesus gave us. I can do ALL things threw Jesus. If you think you have to sin than, according to your faith be it unto you.
Bob, you are only being allowed to comment here because I have not yet blocked access for you. But I am coming close to deciding to do so because of your large number of long and entirely negative comments. If you wish to comment further, please do so briefly and constructively.
I do not wish to discuss the Jezebel spirit or anything similar on this blog. SMBGA as well as Bob, please stop discussing this.
Joe, let the one who is without sin cast the first stone.
Sometimes I wonder where the Faith of our fore fathers have gone to. Jesus came so that we might have have life by dying on the cross. He sent His comforter to help us along our way. He taught us to love our fellow man and to walk the extra mile, Jesus showed us that we all had sinned and fallen short, but it is only by the Grace of God that we have a way to our Heavenily Father, through repentance. By Jesus’s very life he showed us how to live, His walk with His Father was simple and not complicated by this and that which so dominates our lives. Some of the things I hear make me cring and seems all about me and what can I get. Do not folk realise that to receive more, you need to give and not keep hold of what ever you are keeping. I keep hearing comments like entering in and going deeper with God, is that scriptual? Jesus has already made the way possible, just present ourselves before our Heavenily Father who sees all and knows all, before we were ever born or ask. We are told to seek the gifts of the Spirit and men should know you by your fruits……sometimes I think we get caught up in the Wizz, bang , living on the highs of our emotions, and forget the basics. So let us remember what the Fruits are Love, Joy, Peace, Faith, Grace etc….. and work on these. Let us be glad that Our Heavenily Father sent us the Gift of His Holy Spirit, and that we can come into His Presence at any time.
As for Tod Bentley……I won’t judge him, for He will answer to God as we all will, but having seen some of the LakeLand stuff on TV, I am not sure, but I felt deep with in me that is was not completely right, and felt it was not right for me to attend. At the end of the day, there was some good stuff done, and God works dispite our failings. Only God knows what is right or wrong and who is a false Prophet, and again before makeing a judgement about anyone, seek Gods face and use the gifts God has given already to decide what is true and of God and which is not.
Peter!
Thanks again!
I pray that you will be protected when your bubble burst around the truth of Lakeland and Todd Bentley is fully exposed.
For the negaitive comments take it up with those who beside me wrote these words such as Dutch Sheet, Andrew Strom, Prayer Warrior moms, and many more.
It went against you from the begining around Todd because of the Adultress Generation we are all in today within the church.
Like I said before in time all will know the truth and we will be called to repentance, hopefully!
The Father stop Todd from going to England and it is because the true English People are the children of Joseph son – Ephraim. England has turn her back on God but in His mercy – he has saved England for know fron the false annointing of Lakeland.
Pastor – thanks again but I will save you time on remove me from access your blog!
Ah, Bob, now I see where you are coming from. If you are a British Israelite heretic that explains why you are implacably opposed to the true work of God.
By the way, I am not a pastor.
People, If Todd was a false prophet, I promise you he would have never suspended his ministry, he would have recieved a pat on his back, divorced his wife and did his own thing. He may still end up in divorce, but oh man who are you to bring railing accustaion against men of God, who somewhere in their journey has strayed. You know, Samason was a man who like wise moved in great power yet had failures. Interesting though at the end of his life he was restored and we find him listed in the (what I call) the Hall of Faith in Hebrews 11. I truly believ that Todd will be restored to ministry, and that the prophecied that were spoken over him will happen and his latter will be a sign to the enemy that what satan intened to take out will indeed take him out!
Shane
P.S. I love all of you!!!
Shane:
Would you read this article and share your thoughts?
http://pfo.org/notjudge.htm
Thanks,
Bud Press
Todd Bentlys ministry is no different in theology and spiritual intent to the Torronto blessing. By their fruit you shall know them.
A pasor of the vineyard fellowship has repented of his involvement in Torronto because of the spirits involved, the emphasis and theology, and the effects in peoples lives.
http://www.discernment-ministries.org/TheTorontoDeception.htm
What Todd is preaching and doing is such a mixture of things that if you want to only pick the best out of chaos and lack of biblical repentance and love then you are blind. Wishfull thinking of better 3rd heaven experiences never led to salvation or meaningfull transformed natures.
It is sad Peter that you wish to defend this attack on the people of the Lord. The saddest thing of all is how deceived people involved in these movements become even when there are clear manifestations of delusions and demons in their midst.
We as christians are called to be sober upright people who have respect from our neighbours and friends by the way we behave. What has happened in churches is so far from sanity and normal life that we have dishonoured our Lord and his ministry.
I am truely saddened that you call this the work of Jesus and his Holy Spirit, and even try to justify this from things that happened in the early church. Our gospel is quiet, rational, relationship oriented focused on righteousness and love, casting out sin from our midst.
If Toronto was of the Lord, why such bad fruit? If Todd is from the Lord where is the difference from before?
Peter, Toronto is of the Lord, hence lots of good fruit which I am seeing in many lives today including my own. And, as you say, Todd Bentley’s ministry is fundamentally “no different in theology and spiritual intent”, although sadly marred by human sin. One of Jesus’ twelve disciples repented of his involvement with Jesus, but that doesn’t prove anything about Jesus.
Are you a son of God, in the sense of the very nature of God the Father able to perform creative acts on earth? Do you believe the Kingdom of God has come on earth in the same way it will come when Jesus returns? Do you believe illness is only sin or evil spirits in peoples lives? Do you believe we can walk in perfection today in the spirit?
Do you believe you can experience the heavenlies, 3rd heaven today and daily?
If you believe these things why is your life not showing it. Because this is what Todd believes and his great teachers and yet they are not walking in it. The basis of sin is your emotional lives and you lack of love and perfection in the inward man. Nothing of these doctrines speaks to that or the normal failings of human life. And as such this euphoria and heavenly experiences comes down to the same as a drug fix. I am sorry many of my friends from the past have gone down this road and are still as mucked up as they ever were.
The truth is the doctrines are lies and wishfull thinking. If this was true spirituallity then the leadership teams from Todds great work would be flourishing and not going out as soon as he disappears. Worse still this perversion of the gospel of love and the nature of sin will doom those who follow it. How blind do you have to be to be given a dream with no proof and believe it because you get a bit euphoric and it does not work in your life?
Peter, “no” to all these five initial questions, although not necessarily to more nuanced versions of them. I agree with you that these doctrines as stated by you are “lies and wishfull thinking”. Do you have proof that Todd or anyone else answers “yes” to all or any of them?
Peter,
In answer to your question do I have evidence, you do not know the movement you are defending.
Todd Bentley, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Ryan Wyatt (Fresh Fires ministry)
The doctrinal belief these preachers and teachers are saying is the breath of life God gave us is in creation is the eternal essense or nature of the Father in us with all of its creative powers.
As born again believers we gain the ability to walk in this. Some have extended this idea to us as being little gods.
Layered on this idea is once we relise this ability and practice heavenly presence we will usher in the kingdom of God by claiming dominion over everything now on earth.
Todds beliefs on this subject in detail
http://www.freshfire.ca/teaching_details.php?Id=11
Manifesting the anointing – extracts –
“We have the nature of God, the genes of God, the very DNA of God and the substance of God from heaven because we are created in His likeness.”
“As well, from the very beginning of creation, God put the essence of Himself, His creative ability and power into the heart of every man and woman. This ability to create is the essence of who God is and what He has! He gave these gifts to everyone, whether they believe in Him or not.”
“Then we have authority in the spiritual realm over sin, which includes: sickness, disease, death, poverty, Satan, demonic scorpions and serpents, every power and every evil principality. Our kingly authority and dominion includes two realms (the natural/physical realm and the spiritual/heavenly realm) and it is much broader than the dominion Adam and Eve had in the earth in the beginning.”
After reading more of Todds beliefs and that of other preachers they need to explain why this theology is not causing revival today. Open heaven is needed, desire for the spiritual gifts through exercising the Spirit Man within etc.
I like these ideas like I like Star Wars or Star Trek or Harry Potter. If man was made differently than he is, Jesus would have come in a different way with a different gospel. But the gospel he came with is both simple and difficult. I ask you now, to the love planted in your soul, did Jesus call us to love people around us and demonstrate the marvolous wonder of the gosple through good works or through miracles? Are we asked to cure all the sick, raise the dead or rather walk in righteousness and love our enemies. Church history is not full of miracles and wonders because that is what the world seeks, but it is full of faithfull loving deciples of the Lord who occasionally the Lord performed miracles through as gifts of love to individuals.
I know which gospel I follow.
A call for Discernment – Justin Peters
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=XZhHB6hchGk
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=1d_8Zvo59cI
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=1BGlBKgKuNA
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=77KY_c4Ebws
Little gods definition – Joyce Meyer
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y4eVu2oxP8
Kenneth Copeland and others we are gods.
http://www.letusreason.org/WF31.htm
I know in whom I have believed. Deut 13 v 1-5
Thanks
Peter
Peter, let’s limit this to Todd Bentley. I am not seeking to defend Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Ryan Wyatt or Joyce Meyer, nor to attack them, so let’s leave them out of the picture.
So, what are the teachings of Todd that you deny? Do you really deny that God made us in his image (Genesis 1:27) and that our creative abilities come from him? But there is of course a distinction between the creative acts of God alone and the acts of human creativity. Then, are you denying that Jesus gave to his disciples authority over the spiritual realm (Luke 9:1, 10:19)? On these matters Todd is only following the Bible and the traditional Christian understanding.
As for why this theology is not causing revival, the answer should be obvious: revival is caused not by theology but by God! But it is perhaps a precondition for God brining revival that his people are prepared for it by having the right kinds of belief.
You ask, “Are we asked to cure all the sick, raise the dead or rather walk in righteousness and love our enemies.” The answer is of course both of these things. And that is what Todd and others like him are aiming to do.
Peter,
You want to believe you are an eternal being, with the very nature of the Father but fallen.
Ok. That is your faith, but this is not orthodox christian belief.
I look forward to you experiencing dominion like most of the Latter Rain prophets who died without seeing the prophecy being fullfilled.
Todd Bentley has not had revival but the effect of the internet and GodTV.
When you meet the Lord remember who you defended and the fact that all the people this theology is based on are false prophets and did so on the basis of visions and visitations from angels against the people of God,
Goodbye
Peter
Peter, my belief is entirely orthodox, that I am created in the image of God but fallen, and that, unless the Lord comes first, I will die, be resurrected and live for ever. Todd Bentley, whose fallenness is obvious but is the same in principle as yours and mine, believes the same. This IS orthodox biblical Christian belief. A few Latter Rain prophets may have had other beliefs, but I certainly do not share them.
So I have spent the last number of hours reviewing all and reading all your comments. Let me start by saying I dont want to give my last name because I dont want to be hounded by fresh fire or global harvest or for that matter any So called minister of the Lord. I was there. I saw what happened. I am from abbotsford. I have been abused spiritually and finacially and now trust no one individual. I went with a group of 10 people and they all have had the same experience. Judo chops and karate hits those were the final straws and then of corse the other women so there!!!!! I will walk with God on my own
Wow Peter, your post has generated some comments. I was searching for updates on Todd Bentley when I came across this post. Not only from your post but others, I have noticed a lot of people quick and happy to trample on Todd with little compassion, love or indeed, recognition that we are all unacceptably ugly in God’s sight, but for Jesus’ sacrifice for us.
I was personally blessed by what I saw Todd say and do on God TV, and believe he was annointed. I am, like others very sad about his behaviour, but I know that I am no perfect and can easily be led astray in times of great exciement, depression, exhaustion, and so on.
It is amazing grace that saved a wretch like me and amazing grace which saved a wretch like Todd, indeed all of us. Dont argue with these gossipers Peter, let God convict them or not and please keep me informed of Todd’s progress.
Thank you
Steve
Thanks, Steve. I have given up arguing with the gossipers.
I hadn’t seen any updates for a long time, but I now see there is one at the Fresh Fire site. I will post about that and any other news I can find.
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Wow. Isn’t this an interesting read. Why are we so quick to support someone that has sinned and not truly repented because of their gifting/anointing? I worked for FFM several years and the lack of leadership there has been from the beginning. Staff has pointed out on numerous occasions the short comings and nothing was put in place to correct this. How about having an open forum with the staff that worked there? You may get a totally different picture. I just want to leave a comment on the repentance issue. How can we say that he has repented when he deliberately stayed in US so that his divorce would be final prior to entering into counseling with Rick and others. Staff have lost their jobs, some close to loosing their homes because of his decisions and lack of poor leadership. Do I think we need to forgive him? Absolutely, But to restore him to a place where he can do this again is not wise on part of the leadership around him. Who is to say he won’t do this again? He already did it 2x before. Oh I forgot, that was supposed to be a secret!
Sandra, have you seen Todd’s new expression of repentance, which I quoted here? I don’t think it is for us, from a distance, to judge whether it is genuine or not. I don’t know about the legal details of the divorce, but bear in mind that Shonnah seems to have left Todd and not vice versa.
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